The salesman took no part in making the car. He is literally just the middle man. That guy is an idiot.
this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2023
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But contracts equal morality! Ayn Rand gave the Holy Writ on this, I believe it, that settles it!
Is the point still valid if you replace salesman with whoever worked on manufacturing the car?
The metaphor would at least make sense. The point he is trying, and failing, to make is stupid. Workers deserve a fair share of the profits.
The writers were paid when they wrote the show. They don’t own the rights to it. That guy made a good point.
The idea that writers aren’t entitled to a cut of the profit made off their work is stupid, not sorry. Companies literally wouldn’t have a product people want to buy without it.
Again, THEY DON’T OWN THE PRODUCT.
And? They created it. Without them it does not exist. If their labor is worth so little then why is Hollywood putting so much money and time into breaking the strikes so they can own their labor without fully compensating them for it? Why does a company deserve to own a money printing machine but the people who made what they sell don’t deserve anything from it?
Here's the history of residuals and they started in the 60's through a strike. Cheers to it working again. https://www.sagaftra.org/membership-benefits/residuals/history-residuals
So should a construction worker be paid every time you drive across a road they built? Should a plumber be paid every time you flush a toilet they installed?
Should you be getting paid to carry water for Hollywood corporations that make tens of billions a year every time you post, or just the first time?
Again, THEY DON’T OWN THE PRODUCT. If they want residuals, then need to negotiate that with the network. As it is, they are paid $25-35K per episode which is a LOT of money for a weekly show per season.
Stop the White-Knighting for people who probably make exponentially more money than you do. Again- If they want to make royalties/residuals they can either negotiate for it- or create their own production company.
I’m not going to argue about this with you.
How much do the studio, producer, directer, and showrunners make? I think the writers are equal to the producer, directer and showrunners at least. Do they make more than I do? Probably. All of us should be sharing in more of the profits, not taking others down.
How much do the studio, producer, directer, and showrunners make?
They’re contracted. So it’s irrelevant. It’s all based on what agreements they made with the production co.
I think the writers are equal to the producer, directer and showrunners at least.…
The keyword here is “I think….”
When they’re not risking loss, they’re NOT equal.
All of us should be sharing in more of the profits, not taking others down
No one is taking anyone down here. It’s just logical argument. You are basing everything on how you think it should be, without knowing how it is.
I assume a majority of them are on the lower end of your estimate at $25 per episode.
Look it up yourself.
I did and your numbers are wildly inflated. The average rate for network TV is $22.50 an hour, or $49,500 per year assuming full time employment, which would put them at $3,300 per episode with a 15 episode (roughly halfway between the old 22 episode format and current 10 episode format) season per year.
I guess this proves that the internet will tell us what we want to hear, doesn’t it? Because the numbers I found support my point. Either way, it doesn’t matter
They don’t own the product, they don’t take on the risk, they don’t get residuals. That’s how things work.
Again, THEY DON’T OWN THE PRODUCT.
Answer the question. Why is a company entitled to print money off the creative work of artists? What entitles them to that and not the people who actually create the value?
As it is, they are paid $25-35K per episode which is a LOT of money for a weekly show per season.
Lmao, you don't know what you're talking about. What right wing rag told you this shit? Virtually no writers are making that much. I'd be shocked if a dozen are. Do you think the WGA is made up solely of millionaires?
You're not arguing with me about it because you're so uninformed you can't even have a conversation about it.
The company doesn't print money off of the creative work of the artists, they bundle that work with the work of others they've paid for the product and hope it makes some money. Sometimes that goes terribly, so would the artists also like to be on the hook for losses?
Sometimes I get down on myself for not being a very good person, but your comments made me realize I'm pretty good actually, or at least I don't have completely shite opinions like yours, so thanks for lifting my spirits
Ditto.
That type of thinking is one of the major problem in our country right now. The idea that a company can pay their employees the lowest wage they can get away with and then rake in millions off of their work without sharing any of the profits is what is leading to the end of the middle class. It’s ignorant as fuck.
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$3,000 isn’t a lot of money for a group of people, the average full-time worker earns $1,085 a week. The writers created a story that a lot of people liked and that made a lot of money, so they deserve to be paid more. That guy made a bad point.
Again- THEY WERE ALL PAID WHEN THEY WROTE THE SHOW/MOVIE. $3,000 isn’t their only take home from their efforts. Stop moving goalposts.
My apologies, I thought you meant that the $3000 was what they were paid when they wrote the show. I misinterpreted what you were trying to say.
No worries. Yeah. They get paid anywhere between $25K and $35K per episode of network television. More if they’re good. Many are contracted and salaried as well.
Got any proof of that? This shows the average TV writer pay is $22/hr which is less than a basic warehouse job where I live. https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/TV-Writer-Salary#:~:text=As%20of%20Sep%202%2C%202023,States%20is%20%2422.53%20an%20hour.
Yeah. It’s called google.
Ah, so they're numbers you made up and $22/hr is the correct rate. Got it.
Just because I’m not entertaining your dumb argument, doesn’t mean I’m wrong. Google will net you the results you want. So whatever side of this you’re on, you can find the numbers that support your argument.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter.
THEY DON’T OWN THE PRODUCT- THEY DONT GET RESIDUALS.
This is how EVERYTHING works.
Music studio engineers do not get paid royalties when you by a CD. The guy who designed the sword of the character you play in a game doesn’t get paid every time the game is downloaded.
Those who took the risks do. Those who paid into the product’s development do.
Get over it.
Lol the fact that you think there are 'sides' when it comes to a calculated average rate of pay is pretty telling. Not to mention you got hostile the second someone questioned you and posted legitimate numbers from a site dedicated to job listings, while you stick to numbers that, as far as we can tell, were sourced from your own imagination.
If it doesn't matter then why are you getting upset? If it doesn't matter then studios will continue on producing content without the writers.
Why are you referencing music engineers and not songwriters in your analogy? Could it be that you know songwriters earn royalties for the work they produce? They create the product being sold (and resold ad nauseum) so they should be compensated for that. If their work didn't matter then the strike would have zero impact.
The fact that you think I’m upset is hilarious.
We can be done here. A thing more is a waste of time.
In this example, the salesman (Netflix) is literally getting paid over and over for this content
Writers aren't car salesmen. Writers create the foundation of the show. They're more similar to the engineers who design cars.
.. who also don't get paid based on how long or how much the car is driven.
They also don't get paid $3,000 to design cars
Exactly. Now, how much are the engineers who worked on the design of all of the 2008 Ford Focus are getting paid quarterly based on the number of miles driven in 2008 Ford Focuses in 2022?
How many times can Ford sell the same 2008 Ford Focus to new buyers?
Doesn’t matter how many times it’s sold or how many miles it’s driven - the engineers never see another dime. The only people who get money along the way are providing gasoline, parts, or repairs.
It does matter how many times it's being sold because unlike a car, which incurs material and labor costs to produce copies of, studios incur near zero cost when selling/reselling licensing rights to new companies, companies who have to pay these studios based on how many times their product is viewed.
If they don't want to split their hefty profits with the people who produced their product for them, I guess they can try to produce the product without them and see how that goes.
The point is that the designer gets paid once, at the time if design, and the car companies make as many copies as they want without paying an additional penny. Anyone who buys a car never pays an extra penny to the designers no matter hire many times they use the car (analogous to watching a movie or show multiple times).
But let’s take you’re argument- that it costs money to make a copy. All modern cars are filled with software - entertainment, operations, video processing, communications, autopilot. Afaik, no programmers at Ford are getting residuals for the number of times their startup menu plays, or the fuel injectors modulate for a different mix of fuel.
The crux is how these creators get paid - as a fee, or with a speculative, contractually-agreed rate. We’re somehow appalled when one field doesn’t get residuals they want, but other fields never get them at all.
Nah auto workers are doing the same thing. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/auto-workers-are-prepared-to-strike-major-u-s-car-makers-this-week-heres-why
What a stupid sentiment. Writers have been paid residuals for their work since the advent of television when reruns became possible.
Whole lotta bootlickers on this thread