this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2025

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431

"He'll be back." (infosec.pub)

submitted 6 months ago by DougHolland@lemmy.world to c/atheistmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] whyNotSquirrel@sh.itjust.works 18 points 6 months ago (3 children)

They would call him woke if he actually returned

[–] Shortstack@reddthat.com 8 points 6 months ago

And that would be a positive quality, right alongside social justice warrior.

They think it's a grave insult but those without empathy cannot fathom the concept of caring about others

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I think both left and right would hate him if he returned

[+] stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Because if he acted like he does in the New Testament any good feelings towards him would soon sour:

His commands are entirely based on personal responsibility. Giving to the poor was voluntary. Even in the church after his death. He never instituted a church rule for how much one should give, in the early church it was led by conscience.
He healed people but specifically to demonstrate God's power, not because people deserved a healthy life. Many people went unhealed during his lifetime and after.
He specifically tells Christians to continue paying taxes to a dictator and to concentrate on other things
He condemns "porneia". Which to a first century Jew unambiguously included gay sex. (Jesus says he's specifically ministering to Jews)
As the Word of God he's the source of the Jewish Torah and all its associated problems
No comment on the right to bodily autonomy. No comment on age of consent. No comment on slavery. Which is all a tacit acceptance of the status quo..

Etc

For the record I think the right would hate him just as much just for different reasons.

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

About those translations. "~~Tesla~~ tsela" can be rib or side. Jewish people already said yhwh is androgyne, some posited hermaphrodite, so it seems to me it means side, as in half (which is just repackaging Sumerian religion, yhwh being a Canite desert storm warrior God, El being the peaceful one). Jesus never addressed homosexuality, but he did address adultery afaict, and even sex work they dragged only the woman caught in the act before the public, and not the man, where the penalty for either was the same.

I read Jesus as being socialist. Pay your taxes, feed the hungry, heal the sick, clothe the naked, take care of prisoners.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

"Tesla" can be rib or side.

I don't follow the relevance of this

Jesus never addressed homosexuality

One could say the same about unrelated acts such as incest and beastiality but no one thinks he was permissive of those things. That's because he was talking to Jews and condemned "porneia" ('unlawful sex'), which to Jews unambiguously included all of the above including gay sex.

I read Jesus as being socialist

I do too, but more as an anarcho-socialist. He gave no instruction on how to run a state. And all he says about property and conflict resolution (basically pacifist, let yourself be robbed, wronged and stolen from, do not exercise violence towards another) do not carry over into how to run a state at all.

I don't tend to use the word because it often implies progressive social values and rights which Jesus' ministry bears little example of. (He was progressive in the first century, but not the 21st century)

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That was meant to be tsela. Autocorrect is a bane.

I don't see how you get where he said let yourself be robbed. But I guess different brains work differently.

ETA: maybe the gospel writers who lived hundreds of years after missed some stuff. Real time reports do the same. Or maybe they deliberately left some stuff out. Hard to say since there's no proof Jesus ever existed.

For real kicks, check out the Ethiopian Bible. A lot of lore that's not mentioned in the canonical gets explained there. Enoch (Metatron) and Testament of Solomon are wild. It's what Goetian magic is based on. Which in my best estimation are early attempts at self-psychology, but that just comes from having listened to a couple of Don Duquett presentations.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't see how you get where he said let yourself be robbed

"Do not resist an evil person. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you.." - Matthew 5:39

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Fair. ETA: what version is that? First time I ever saw "sue "

Maybe he was talking about a poor robber. Maybe he wasn't. Maybe what we see about characters reflects our shadows, light and dark.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The above was from the NIV but it's similar in all translations as you can see on biblehub:

https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-39.htm

https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-40.htm

https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-42.htm

[–] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Holy shit! I've got to pull out my ancient hardcopies and see if this is memory failure or updated translating.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

it's in the KJV from 1611. it's nothing to do with "updated translations"

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Way more than a billion, probably

[+] metaStatic@kbin.earth -10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

There are more people alive today than have ever lived so it's probably closer than you think, especially when they have to also be Christians

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 6 months ago

This got me intrigued so I looked it up a bit. Population reference bureau estimates there have been 117 billion humans ever. a rough estimate would place 80-85 billion of them from 0-2025 (when Abrahamic religions came about) thanks to explosive population growth

Granted this is all reallllly rough estimates but I still say it’s many more than a billion at this point. However as you said selecting for Christians is a big factor.

Over the years Christianity evolved from a niche to the largest religion in the world (though Islam is poised to overtake it)

100: ~7 million (about 1% of world population) 500: ~30 million (10%) 1000: ~50 million (10-12%) 1500: ~100 million (15-20%) 1900: ~560 million (35%) 2000: ~2 billion (33%) 2025: ~2.4 billion (31%)

So historically we can estimate the total number Christians who have died is about 23 billion based on 80-85 billion total born and roughly 25-30% historically, giving us roughly 25 billion born (2 billion remain alive as seen above).

That said this is based on wild estimates and is obviously not accurate in any meaningful way. I’m just bored and I have to watch my sick dog so I’m giving myself math homework

[–] Eheran@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

It is 7 % mate. Not more than 100.

[–] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

'For I tell you, there are those living today that will see the second coming of the lord'.

Been going on for 2000+ years now.

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

Imagine if he had been reborn every generation, but kept getting killed because Christians called him a heretic.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's a bummer that religion is so good at programming people that they just kind of ignore everything contrary to their worldview.

[–] DougHolland@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

Once that's their habit, it becomes easy to also ignore things more urgent and real than religion.

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Well based on the Christian views, all those that believe well be resurrected. So yes it will be a lifetime.

Kind of confuses me cause like aren't they in heaven now and now got pushed back to material plane? Or were they in stasis?

[–] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Imagine being dragged away from literal heaven and being forced to come back to Earth as it is now (or how it will be in the future.)

I don't know about y'all, but that doesn't sound like something I'd look forward to.

[–] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 2 points 6 months ago

Well I guess it's closer to norse mythology where they are in heaven to prepping except it's for earth colonization. I dk.

[–] FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Kind of confuses me cause like aren't they in heaven now and now got pushed back to material plane? Or were they in stasis?

The new testament is a bit confused on this - unsurprisingly, given it's composed of several author's beliefs.

But the view that makes the most 'sense' (if one wants to imagine it's just lore for a minute), is that everyone who dies enters an unconscious 'rest' (or 'stasis' as you say). And one day ALL will be raised for the last judgement. After which some are condemned to hell, and some to everlasting life on earth which has been transformed back to be like Eden.

There are passages that all directly address this.

The counter view (of which there is less support) is that upon dying believers are transported - awake - to somewhere called 'paradise' or 'Abraham's bossom'. So yes, they would be 'yanked back' from there. But as far as I can see, these parts of the Bible do seem to be more deliberately figurative. But who knows.

[–] DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 6 months ago

Wow, didn’t know he came back and killed so many people

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Only a billion?