News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org
So, the comment in question is"Steinmeier is an anti-democratic tyrant!". What the muskrat probably doesn't know: The German president has only representative powers, unlike the US president. The German president can't be a tyrant cause he has basically no power.
Musk has no clue about German politics and it is pretty obvious he is talking out of his ass
to be fair - most americans don't have a single clue about anything outside of the US
That's three months to five years prison time:
(1) Wer öffentlich, in einer Versammlung oder durch Verbreiten eines Inhalts (§ 11 Absatz 3) den Bundespräsidenten verunglimpft, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren bestraft.
(2) In minder schweren Fällen kann das Gericht die Strafe nach seinem Ermessen mildern (§ 49 Abs. 2), wenn nicht die Voraussetzungen des § 188 erfüllt sind.
(3) Die Strafe ist Freiheitsstrafe von sechs Monaten bis zu fünf Jahren, wenn die Tat eine Verleumdung (§ 187) ist oder wenn der Täter sich durch die Tat absichtlich für Bestrebungen gegen den Bestand der Bundesrepublik Deutschland oder gegen Verfassungsgrundsätze einsetzt.
(4) Die Tat wird nur mit Ermächtigung des Bundespräsidenten verfolgt.
https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/90.html
Would be kind of awesome if Frank-Walter pushes this
Give Elon a break. He learned everything he knows about Germany in Mein Kampf and that's not in it.
Yeah, that would be pretty bad ass.
But if he was outside of german jurisdiction when he did it, he didn't actually commit a crime, no?
The 'success' has also been established in Germany when he made it available on his Xitter-account.
Strafgesetzbuch (StGB) § 5 Auslandstaten mit besonderem Inlandsbezug
Das deutsche Strafrecht gilt, unabhängig vom Recht des Tatorts, für folgende Taten, die im Ausland begangen werden:
(...)
a) in den Fällen des § 86 Absatz 1 und 2, wenn Propagandamittel im Inland wahrnehmbar verbreitet oder der inländischen Öffentlichkeit zugänglich gemacht werden und der Täter Deutscher ist oder seine Lebensgrundlage im Inland hat,
b) in den Fällen des § 86a Absatz 1 Nummer 1, wenn ein Kennzeichen im Inland wahrnehmbar verbreitet oder in einer der inländischen Öffentlichkeit zugänglichen Weise oder in einem im Inland wahrnehmbar verbreiteten Inhalt (§ 11 Absatz 3) verwendet wird und der Täter Deutscher ist oder seine Lebensgrundlage im Inland hat,
c) in den Fällen der §§ 89, 90a Abs. 1 und des § 90b, wenn der Täter Deutscher ist und seine Lebensgrundlage im räumlichen Geltungsbereich dieses Gesetzes hat, und
d) in den Fällen der §§ 90 und 90a Abs. 2;
German Criminal Code (StGB)
Section 5 Foreign offenses with a special domestic connection
German criminal law applies, regardless of the law of the place of the offense, to the following offenses committed abroad:
(...)
a) in the cases of Section 86 (1) and (2), if propaganda material is perceptibly disseminated in Germany or made available to the domestic public and the perpetrator is German or has his livelihood in Germany,
b) in the cases of Section 86a (1) no. 1, if a distinctive sign is perceptibly disseminated in Germany or used in a manner accessible to the domestic public or in content perceptibly disseminated in Germany (Section 11 (3)) and the perpetrator is German or has his livelihood in Germany,
c) in the cases of Sections 89, 90a (1) and Section 90b if the perpetrator is German or has his livelihood in Germany. 1 and Section 90b, if the offender is German and has his or her livelihood in the territorial scope of this Act, and
d) in the cases of Sections 90 and 90a (2);
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Elon wouldn't visit Germany as long as he might face consequences and I don't think the US would extradite him.
Elon wouldn't visit Germany as long as he might face consequences
That would be the entire EU, not just Germany. That would make his life certainly more difficult so I sincerely hope Germans push for the consequences.
Elon wouldn’t visit Germany as long as he might face consequences and I don’t think the US would extradite him.
How about waiting until he visits Germany and then starting the prosecution and promptly incarceration of this foreign criminal?
Let's not wait until trump starts his term, though. I don't trust trump not to invoke the USA's ICC contingency plan on the whole of the EU if his master of "efficiency" gets arrested here.
I see. Thanks.
We also have laws against citizens negotiating with foreign governments on behalf of the United States.
The effect of his actions happened in Germany, that's enough. I don't think it's among the laws where it's sufficient if the victim is German, and Musk isn't German so that category doesn't apply either. It's also not a war crime, genocide, etc, where Germany prosecutes anyone doing anything to anyone anywhere.
OTOH no, Steinmeier is not going to authorise prosecution over this. Even assuming it is an insult and not a pointedly formulated, and wrong, critique, the point of the law in practice is to not use it.
That's a house search for Musk incoming now, isn't it?
so 1 pimmel
The internet can't be a law exempt place!
It can if you are rich. But if you pirate a movie the swat team will raid your home and sue you for millions.
I have kept the original headline of the article. In my opinion, however, this is an unfavorable choice with regard to the rest of the article's content.
Elon keeps endorsing politicians and parties on the far right in Europe through his (anti-)social media platform. Openly meddling in foreign countries affairs only to cause disruption and further his own interests. And all the while he is designated to be part of Trump's new gouvernment as head of DOGE.
head of DOGE
Well don't worry too much: the DOGE doesn't exist and can't be created without an act of congress, and that's simply not gonna happen.
In other words, Musk and Ramaswamy have no power other than the one every fucking billionnaire has, which is talk into the ear of congresscritters who are willing to listen to them and actually do their bidding.
It's not great, as congresscritters are pretty much all more or less corrupt, but it's better than those two ultra-rich nutjobs running an actual United States department.
Thank you, I won't worry too much about DOGE. Unfortunately you're right about the rest too. These people have too much money to influence politics.
I remembered this comment & how it aged like fine milk.
I am kind of assuming you worry about DOGE now? Almost everything they do is illegal, but afaict the courts aren't fast enough to prosecute any of it. Given another few weeks, there won't be any judges willing to touch DOGE either. The only thing that could stop this is if Musk and Trump had a major fallout.
Apparently though, people still think they'll continue to live in a democracy.
Well, my comments holds true: DOGE doesn't exist as a state department, and billonaires don't have any legal power.
What DOGE is is a bunch of goons illegally tasked by the president to illegally gain control of lawful state departments and letting people without proper credential illegally access sensitive data to do who-knows-what without any oversight, and no pushback from the people's elected representatives.
My comment stated what could be legally done. The reality is that the corrupt POTUS and his puppetmasters went full illegal, so it doesn't even apply anymore. In a normal world, Trump and Musk would be cooling off in jail right now charged with high treason. But for some reason, that's not happening...
I could see Trump trying a few sketchy things and getting immediate backlash from congress. I couldn't see him staging a full-blown coup and meeting zero resistance. Could you see that one coming? I couldn't.
When I first read your comment, I knew that DOGE was going to be more real/impactful than you seemed to realize. After all, there was Project 2025 and it spelled out that that Trump should drastically reduce people power and spending everywhere across the bureaucracy. I also knew that Trump gave a fuck about legalities and that his goal would be to lead autocratically (he literally said the thing about being a first-day dictator).
Here's the things I didn't know:
For the record: If you're an American, I'd like to urge you to stand up and protest. At the rate it's going, you won't have much time to defend democracy. I've read Wapo yesterday and watched late-night shows -- they're all still sanewashing what is happening to some degree. They are still failing to mention the word "coup" and that's extremely dangerous.
1573rd time elon the unelected oligarch calls a democratically elected ~~leader~~ representative a dictator and remains obediently silent on russia, China, etc. Traitorous moron. He wants to enslave everyone to his ketamine-addled pet projects.
Democracies need to regrow some balls and some teeth to put these dipshits in their place and at the very least tax the shit out of them before they turn every country into a cryptobro fascist wasteland.
calls a democratically elected leader a dictator and remains obediently silent on russia, China, etc.
I think you are spot on . There is a definitely a pattern here.
I fist saw a similar comment like this some weeks ago. I've been scanning the media to see whether the US oligarchs Trump & Musk have issued any criticism towards real autocratic systems, since the US elections; and, I have seen none, so far.
unelected oligarch calls a democratically elected leader a dictator
I know who Musk is, but calling representatives and office holders "leaders" is wrong too. You can put model of a coffee machine in some building to a vote, but it doesn't become a leader. Just a choice made this way.
~~Tesla~~ Donald Trump boss Elon Musk has added German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier to the list of politicians he has insulted in Europe
There, FTFY.
Bet Elongated Muskrat is mad at Germany because they have strong unions.