this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023

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Stephen Lecce signals Ontario will adopt anti-trans policies to public outcry (rabble.ca)

submitted 2 years ago by grte@lemmy.ca to c/canadapolitics@lemmy.ca

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[–] MapleEngineer@lemmy.ca 27 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Conservatives spend $400 million on a parking garage for a private spa being built on public land with a secret 99 year lease but school boards can't afford to bus kids to school.

Conservatives give $8 billion benefit to a few wealthy developer friends of Doug Ford, get called out by the auditor in a scathing report, Steve Clark is abjectly incompetent but throws his Chief of Staff under the bus.

Oh look...neo-fascist virtue signaling targeting the LQBTQ community to distract everyone from the depths of their corruption!

[–] streetfestival@lemmy.ca 26 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I thought there were some great quotes from Fae Johnstone, president of Momentum, a non-profit focused on 2SLGBTQIA+ advocacy: “Mandating parental consent [for self-identified pronoun usage in schools] for trans students will harm the most vulnerable trans kids: those without supportive parents” and “We should be asking: who was pushing for these changes? Because it’s not parents.”

[–] jadero@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 years ago

My thoughts on the matter are that the only parents who absolutely insist on being informed by someone other than their own children are the ones who it needs to be kept secret from.

Yes, I would want to know, but only so that I can provide proper support and I hope I've made that clear enough that my children see no need to keep me in the dark in the first place.

[–] Ryan213@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

Sounds about right for these crooks.

[–] Pxtl@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 years ago

Trans rights are human rights. That includes the right for privacy and safety of trans children.

[+] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca -13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It’s weird how the right contains the full trans movement and anti-movement in it

As a leftist I disagree with it but think things like this will just lead to child abuse

[–] T0RB1T@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm sorry, maybe I'm not understanding.

Are you trying to claim that trans individuals are automatically right-wing? I don't believe I've seen any facts bear that out.

[+] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca -12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Not trans people themselves because they can be right or left, the movement - how society is going about accepting them and the view on gender

Leftists of course believe gender is sex (male if you have a Y and female if you don’t). Where being called a she or having surgery doesn’t make you any less of a man.

The path forward for people on the left is to remove gender roles and the stereotypes. However that is on society, not on trans people because if we go by the above logic they feel the way they do because of how society currently is

We are okay with accepting trans people because they don’t have a choice but dislike how society at large is trying to put a bandage (gender surgery, pronouns, bathrooms) on the issue rather than dealing with the root causes

Meanwhile on the right you have the measures we are currently undertaking and on the far right you have people that want to harm the individuals

[–] T0RB1T@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Assuming you're saying all this in good faith, I can confidently say your assertions on what leftists believe is entirely off the mark.

In my experience the more left you are, the less you care about gender norms, stereotypes, and roles. More importantly, the most left-wing people I know are the least onboard with the framing of "gender = sex" and "gender is binary".

Personally in my own political journey, the more radically left I've gotten, the more conscious I've been of how things actually work for marginalized and queer folk. I used to be largely politically unconscious, and I used to think that "all the trans stuff" was confusing and weird "how can you be non-binary? That doesn't make any sense at all."

However, the more I've understood the world through a leftist lens, the more I've actually comprehended the reality the LGBTQ+ community lives in... and it's gotten less scary as a result.

I'm very left, and I do not believe an ounce of what you say I'd believe.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

the less you care about gender norms, stereotypes, and roles

Is this not what I was saying about getting rid of them?

I’ve actually comprehended the reality the LGBTQ+ community lives in… and it’s gotten less scary as a result.

I said we should be helping them though through societal change, rather than continuing what causes these problems for them

I’m very left, and I do not believe an ounce of what you say I’d believe.

Maybe you hold some right wing values, being against gender norms but then saying gender is more than just XX/Y doesn’t make sense

[–] T0RB1T@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm sorry it doesn't make sense to you. But firstly, I didn't claim I was "against" gender norms, but simply that me and my friends don't care.

Norms exist, period. You cannot force norms to disappear, but you can make it easy and painless to reject them for how you act in life. I am not against them, I simply pay them no mind.

And gender is more than chromosomes, it's personal, it's identity, it's intimate. Gender need not be something so easily and rigidly defined, we have another term for that, "sex".

What kind of right-wing values do you think I hold? Because again, "gender = chromosomes" is not a leftist value.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca -3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Of course society can get rid of norms, norms have changed over the years and aren’t consistent between cultures even

Gender and sex are the same term, people are individuals and you’d do better to stop assuming what someone is like because of their gender

[–] T0RB1T@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Right, norms change, but there will always be norms. People have traits and tendencies that we can map out. I fall into many norms, and outside of many others.

And the belief that gender and sex are the same thing, is a predominantly conservative, and right-wing view.

Lastly, it's amusing to me that you'd insinuate that I assume what people are like because of their gender.

Oh well, trolls gonna troll. Hope you have fun, keep it civil. 🤷

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

Conservatives don’t believe in science, they are trying to put on that stance to appeal to a wider range of people and seem rational

They don’t like people deviating from norms

If they truly had this stance then they wouldn’t care about drag