Give em full air support. If it causes world war 3, it causes world war 3. Fuck it. Avoiding that isn't worth letting Russia just consume its neighbors on a whim - that shit certainly won't stop with Ukraine.
this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2024
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if it causes ww3, it will be a lot less bloody war than what will be if russia is allowed to recover and take over next country
There isnt enough North Koreans for that.
Maybe if WW3 breaks out, Biden won't hand over power to the literal fascists that are already making decisions to cause our demise.
Wtf? That's such a casual suggestion to dismantle democracy. Yeah let's do that so we never get a progressive in office /s
If we're going to have an autocracy, it may as well be the one that is still somewhat benevolent to the common man.
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It wouldn't be the first time a country did that. It's never ended particularly well though.
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Russia is also already instigating it with having North Korean troops in the combat zone. It'll just be a tit-for-tat response.
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If US cuts funding it would be abandoning its allies in violation of the Budapest memorandum which the US signed in '94 to protect Ukraine if Russia invades, and that violation from Russia since 2014 also grants Ukraine back its nuclear program which should have been supported by allies like the US. The only language a dictator like Putin understands is violence or the threat of violence, look at the nuclear saber rattling he does frequently and how people and nations capitulate to it and the only neighbors they avoid are either nuclear armed or NATO allied.
Well, if it violates the Budapest memorandum of 1994, of course Trump will change his mind. /s
That aside, it only would kick in if Russia used nuclear weapons, anyway. Link to the text. The present effort is all about trying to keep Europe safe through deterrence, and to a lesser degree supporting a democracy that's under attack.
The US may yet betray Ukraine and break its agreement under the treaty, I hope not but I don't expect anything else from Putin's #1 sycophant.
- The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
CSCE final act, not exclusive to using nuclear weapons: https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Final_Act_of_the_Conference_on_Security_and_Cooperation_in_Europe
Yeah, Russia definitely broke their word here. I just don't see anything that says the US has to intervene.
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Unfortunately the Budapest Memorandum doesn't obligate the US to actually protect Ukraine.
Hopefully Europe can fill the gap left if Putin's puppet cuts support US support
Of course the letter of the treaty can be interpreted, what does "immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine" include in literal obligations? But the intent of the document seems clear that the signatories are there to hold each other accountable to prevent nuclear proliferation, if the guarantees are no longer valid like the repeated Russian violation of Ukraine sovereign borders, the other signatories are expected to either protect Ukraine or reinstate their nuclear arms.
Edit: including link to the document text https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
"seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine"
That's the strongest language I see, and that obligation could be filled by just pushing for Ukraine's defense in the Security Council.
I think the US has been unfairly reserved in its support of Ukraine. They should have given jets, permission to strike in Russia, and more a long time ago. But I don't think they're obligated by that memorandum to do even what they have.
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If the US cuts funding can Ukraine use their remaining stockpile of US weapons without restriction?
Yes, but they will run out of weapons very quickly
True but at least deliveries are being supercharged for the next couple of months. Let's hope it doesn't come to that though
I'm all for America funding as much as possible, but FFS Europe, the monster is ringing your doorbell.
That reads as if the EU is just sitting on its hands and doing nothing. Please keep in mind that there is significant financial support coming from the EU:
Source: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Where the EU cannot compete with the US is in the supply of military goods. For the simple reason that these do not exist to the extent that the US has them.
Edit: I have to correct myself in a detail. The graph of course shows Europe not the EU. So it includes e.g. the UK as well. The point still stands though looking on the rest of the data.
Jesus fuck that really puts it into perspective how much larger the United States military complex is. I want to to see this combined with the Israeli financing. I mean is what we bitch about being bad over budgeting of the defense budget or whatever it falls under really just a means of paying other countries to fight battles they used to send US soldiers to fight? Did I just become pro-military complex?
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Europe ARE doing a lot. We just don't have as much of an aging stockpile of weapons as the US does. Also when turned into financial contribution you need to convert it to a percentage of GDP.
Well, turns out someone made that data available.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Europe most certainly are doing their part.
However, that's not the real fear. The USA is going into a new presidential term, a term where the house, senate and the supreme court are going to likely side with the president on most things.
The USA can put significant pressure on European countries. If we're to believe Trump is really working in Putin's favour then, as well as stopping US aid, there's not too much stopping the US pressuring Europe from doing the same. That is my real fear. I think without US support this is hard, very hard for Europe to fill that gap. But, we certainly can still try.
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Trump: Oh no that's horrible, on an unrelated note heeeey Putin how that deal going for a Trump tower in Moscow
Trump's plan is just to force Ukraine to hand whatever the Russians have taken over to the Russians, or whatever or they stop getting aid.
The Kremlin said any peace plan proposed by a possible future Trump administration would have to reflect the reality on the ground but that Russian President Vladimir Putin remained open to talks.
The Kremlin said any peace plan proposed by a possible future Trump administration would have to reflect the reality on the ground but that Russian President Vladimir Putin remained open to talks.
So Putin's puppet will let them take what they have under control..and knowing Trump and Putin, probably more, like sanctions or stripping Ukraine of more autonomy.
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That was kind of the point. Trump, Putin and Netanyahu are playing everyone. Started the Gaza attack knowing Americans move on and will forget about Ukraine once Gaza is in flames and he was right. Americans don't care about Ukraine anymore, they've moved on and voted with Putin. Just waiting for the next conflict now that will distract everyone away from Gaza
Frankly speaking Russia and China would have a great opportunity to try to appear sane for Europe when Trump gets into office. Like offer an actual peace for the price of giving a huge middle finger to USA. Trump admin seem to be begging for us to do it anyway.
I suspect that this is a pipe-dream and they will not do that, and also for Russia their credibility is pretty much gone and I don't see any way they could restore it.
China might be able to pull it off though.
"if"
Ukrainian people and russian people already lost the war, casualties are up to a million
Can’t believe you’re being downvoted for this. Everyday people are the ones who lose in a war regardless of nationality. The people who wage wars don’t fight them.
what's next? the sky is blue? duhh
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