this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023

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GenZedong

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Danish "socialist" party, Enhedslisten chose a new leader, Pelle Dragsted, who commemorated the "Tiananmen Square Massacre" this June. Denmark is so cucked. (Translation in body) (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by Comrade_Vig@lemmygrad.ml to c/genzedong@lemmygrad.ml

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The tweet translated:

Today is the anniversary of the massacre of students and workers who fought for freedom, rights and democracy in China, but were suppressed with violence and repression. China's repression of dissidents unfortunately continues in high gear.

This dude is the new leader for "Enhedslisten"(Unity List), the only "socialist"(They have recently been pro NATO until an alternative arises) party with enough mandates to receive government positions, they are fairly popular.

Denmark is so cucked.

The tweet: https://twitter.com/pelledragsted/status/1665355639307096064

News article about him becoming "ordfører" for Enhedslisten: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/live-enhedslisten-praesenterer-ny-politisk-ordfoerer (Danish)

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[–] Drstrange2love@lemmygrad.ml 43 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I always say this event had more impact in the West than in China itself

[–] Ronin_5@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 2 years ago

I’d say that the whole event was win-win for China. Got rid of counter-revolutionaries, and the sanctions motivated China to develop their own (military) tech.

It’s a shame that it wasn’t used as an example of US neo-colonialism as it should have been.

[+] astral_avocado@lemm.ee -52 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Well when you memory hole an event as hard as you can so that an entire generation forgets about a bloody crackdown on democratic ideals, sure. It had more of an affect outside of where that suppression happened because people actually remember.

[–] WaterBowlSlime@lemmygrad.ml 44 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Yeah cuz westerners definitely know more about Chinese history than Chinese people LMAO

[–] NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml 43 points 2 years ago (1 children)

White man's burden is the opium of Westerners.

[–] astral_avocado@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago

Maybe not more than the government but your average Chinese citizen? LOL

[+] vermingot@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz -32 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Which Chinese people ? The exploited or the bourgeoisie ? Are you being vague because you don't want to discuss this in good faith ?

Someone happens to have a different view on a subject and that means it's time to present the most vapid argument because you know it's gonna get supported.

Even if you support something, most of the time shit's nuanced and doesn't stop at "Chinese know Chinese things more so you're automatically wrong"

Anyway, I don't understand this community, I thought there were gonna be communists here, let's go back to the part where everyone unequivocally supports the regime.

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"Am I wrong about communism? No, it's the communists who are wrong!"

[+] vermingot@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz -17 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That's not what I'm saying, my point is that usually communists are people who took a step back to reflect and question themselves on the world we are living in and I'm disappointed to see the same herd mentality you see everywhere else where anything that isn't coming from inside that echo chamber is rejected outright. There are many "flavours" of communism and we should be able to have a healthy discussion between different communist groups but I don't see that anywhere.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

communists are people who took a step back to reflect and question themselves on the world we are living in

This is exactly what we did and you are reading the effect of it. It's not like the event was yesterday, we had a lot of time to think on it.

There are many “flavours” of communism

We had a lot of time to think on this too, and we rejected the utopian and reactionary flavours of communism. And we are not having a healthy discussion because you ride here on a horse higher than stars and you shower us with being confidently ignorant about us. If you really want to know something, ask. You just need to ask in good faith, not the usual liberal method of "did you stopped beating your wife", that will only get you ridiculed, because we seen way too many of debate pervert types to lose too much time on them.

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago

Poetry.

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 years ago

"Am I wrong about communism? No, it's the communists who are wrong!"

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 2 years ago

You should stick around and have a look what it's like when communists argue among themselves. At the moment it seems that you have a preconceived notion of what Marxist discussion looks like. I assume that means you haven't met many Marxists, which is common except in communist countries.

There are many things we have already reached agreement on, such as that something like 99.9999% of westerners are completely clueless about China and communism.

They don't want to know. They don't know what historical or dialectical materialism is, if they've even heard of the terms. They don't care for political economy (even their own liberal version of it). Otherwise they would be willing to look past what they have been taught and objectively weigh and consider new evidence.

Notwithstanding that the evidence isn't new; it just never generally reached the western public. Be confident that your ruling class knows what really happens/ed. There are over 150 years of Marxist literature that you very likely have never encountered or understood as Marxist. We're not just making things up or coming to conclusions based on vibes or predetermined notions of who's right or wrong (morally or otherwise).

Marxism begins with the concrete analysis of concrete conditions. If you have some new concrete evidence for us, by all means share it and we will arrive at fresh conclusions. It better be rigorous evidence, though, or it will be dismissed.

It's up to you whether you want to learn but if all you do is call us drones for accepting conclusions reached after years of research and struggle sessions, you're going to be disappointed.

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 38 points 2 years ago

Democratic ideals? Does your inclusion of democratic ideals include the idea of kicking Africans out?

[–] kig_v2@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Chinese people weren't forced to "memory hole" the event, contrary to what we are taught here in the West, Chinese people know plenty of T Square.

For an introduction to the truth, TLDR: the "pro democracy" protests were formented by the CIA to purposefully sow division and stir unrest. Their goals were purposefully vague and ill defined. The majority of the casualties were policemen who were immolated by these CIA-funded upper middle class goons, policemen whom worked very hard to avoid violence (Asian police are not the same types of police we imagine here in the open-air prison of the West). All the "evidence" of there being a massacre falls apart under the slightest scrutiny: pictures supposedly showing scores of dead bodies on the pavement are almost entirely abandoned bicycles.

The famous "tank man" video is honestly the perfect encapsulation of the truth. You're telling me this despotic, murderous regime was killing hundreds of civilians but wouldn't squish one lone man holding up an entire column of tanks? I don't know if you're familiar with wartime behavior but an entity committed to slaughtering civilians doesn't withhold just because one man is being brave, it only illustrates their reluctance to commit violence. If you watch the whole video, he climbs on top of the tanks, bangs on the turret. A soldier comes out, they talk. Afterwards, the man gestures and some people cross the street.

The same thing happened with the "democratic ideals" of the Hong Kong rioters, who, again, were CIA-funded and who were far more violent towards the police than the police were to them.

"Color revolutions" such as these are a common tactic from the US playbook. Just as the US throughout history illustrates its mastery of deceit, muddying waters, and complete disregard for human life, China illustrates time and time again that it genuinely cares about the wellbeing of its citizens, even those affected by foreign brainwashing.

Xinjiang "genocide" (aka humane rehabilitation of American-fertilized fascists commended by the entire world outside of the West) is another perfect example of this.

I'm sorry but everything you've heard about China is a lie. The real dystopia has been here, all along.

[–] kig_v2@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago

It's very difficult to talk about this because, as you can see, we are not merely disagreeing on one event, we are portraying two wildly different and mutually exclusive narratives of a country of 1+ billion people (and at a certain point every single socialist country in human history). It is simply insufficient to talk only of T Square because of how linked such things as Xinjiang or Hong Kong are. A discussion of American color revolutions and similar attempts at sabotage could span hours.

So much contextual information is necessary to even begin to entertain this narrative, which to someone like you will be tantamount to entertaining Holocaust Denialism or similarly sickly things.

For example, do you know that well into the 90s of % of Chinese people trust the CPC at a federal level, and believe their country is a healthy democracy? As someone who has seen the CPC readily shift very fundamental policies to the whims of the Chinese people for generations, I am inclined to agree.

So, does the vast majority of Chinese people love the Communist Party because they are all held at gunpoint and fear being disappeared and harvested for organs or fed to dogs or whatever? Or do they love them because they genuinely have done a great job advocating for them and improving their livelihoods? This is where the narratives cannot gently coexist. We are talking about two radically different Chinas.

China has raised 800+ million people out of poverty. They are the only major country doing major green energy reforms. They arrest and even execute billionaires for crimes against the working class. They have the fastest growing middle class and international vacationing class in the world. All of this and the democratic poll are all reluctantly confirmed by hostile Western NGOs who struggle to find a way to take such obvious victories and spin them negatively...we have a joke here amongst us tankies, goes sort of like, "China cured cancer and distributed freely to all its citizens, but AT WHAT COST?"

We have truly been thoroughly lied to about socialist countries, by the greatest enemies of socialism to exist. China didn't praise Nazis and protect them from Nuremberg to hire them, USA did. China didn't destroy every people's movement of the 20th century they could, USA did. So why are we trusting the inheritors of the Nazi Empire on what is good or real socialism or not?

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 29 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Absolutely ridiculous that someone could call themselves a socialist and still act like such a fool

[–] Cysioland@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 years ago

That's how anti-China anti-Soviet succdems call themselves in Poland.

[–] ComradeEd@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 2 years ago (1 children)

For helved da. Of course they are... democratic socialists?, well western "socialists", through and through.

[–] Comrade_Vig@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Pretty much. They are definitely socialist in their definition, but they believe in the weakest form of socialist revolution: Voting it in ... On paper at least, in practice it's hasn't been looking good imo. The current ordfører bashing the worlds largest socialist project and them supporting NATO until an alternative is presented is worrying.

Commendably (Quite a while ago now) they did vote no to the removal of the EU forsvarsforbehold. (As the only left-wing party btw, some right-wing parties did vote no, but that's because they want their own fascist militaries lol)

https://enhedslisten.dk/programmer/enhedslistens-principprogram

Direct democracy, socialist economy, community based governance, rewriting grundloven(constitution) etc. all good stuff on paper.

[–] Comrade_Vig@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

There is also this ... The incident is rather cringe, the police removed a Tibet flag from protesters during a China-Denmark state visit, and the police officers themselves were reprimanded for acting on their own accord. But I find this post even more cringe.

https://i.imgur.com/ziVNwj0.png

Translated:

Protest against panda diplomacy. Today, Eva Flyvholm, foreign affairs spokesperson for Enhedslisten, gave a speech at the demonstration organised by the Support Committee for Tibet in front of the Copenhagen Zoo. "We are not against the pandas, but it is clear that Denmark gets the pandas after we toned down our criticism of the Chinese occupation of Tibet," says Eva Flyvholm. "It is important for us to support the right to demonstrate and display the Tibetan flag.

Ah yes, let's bring back feudal-theocratic slave rule to Tibet???

[–] juchebot88@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago

muh tiny man^2^