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Question about treat wounds on Eidolons (lemmy.ca)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by bionicjoey@lemmy.ca to c/pf2general@pathfinder.social

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Hi all! Relatively new (or new to PF2e) GM here. Last night one of my players who is playing a Summoner raised the question of whether he can attempt Treat Wounds twice every hour instead of once since his Eidolon is a separate target (ie. Someone treats the Summoner's wounds and then immediately treats the Eidolon's wounds). I ruled in the moment that I didn't think that sounded right, my reasoning being that they share a health pool and the PC shouldn't be able to double its benefits solely because of which class it is. Can anyone tell me what the RAW is here, ideally with an AON reference I can point him to?

Edit: I found this thread which seems to suggest that I made the wrong call. I'd love to have a more official answer, but I think the idea that healing is supposed to be trivialized by certain combos makes sense.

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[–] supersonicstork@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago

I allow Treat Wounds and Battle Med to proc separately on Eidolon and Summoner. But I can see arguments for and against it.

The only thing I'll add to this discussion is to consider that the Summoner is playing two half characters. They essentially get misfortune against all AoE effects, and any buffs to their defence have to be applied twice (once to each of them). The summoner themselves is also a cloth armoured caster with significantly less spell slots than the others, making them an easy target.

[–] GaryPonderosa@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

If the summoner and eidolon both took damage from an AoE, would you only apply it once since they share hit points?

[–] HunterHog@pathfinder.social 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yes, those are the rules.

Like with your actions, if you and your eidolon are both subject to the same effect that affects your Hit Points, you apply those effects only once (applying the greater effect, if applicable). For instance, if you and your eidolon get caught in an area effect that would heal or damage you both, only the greater amount of healing or damage applies.

If both are affected by the exact same effect, then yeah, it only applies once.

The Treat Wounds effect is different since it's not the exact same effect, they're still separate entities and it's not applied simultaneously. hence the question. General consensus seems to be that you can, just not simultaneous (i.e. ward medic)

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 years ago

I believe the RAW in that case is for the Summoner to only take the greater of the damage it would take and what its eidolon would take. So if the Summoner succeeds the saving throw and the Eidolon crit fails the save, then the summoner takes double damage from the AOE effect.

[–] mal2@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 years ago

I don't think it's a big deal to allow both the summoner and the eidolon to be healed by Treat Wounds in an hour. Assuming someone is planning on pursuing Medicine Skill Feats, Continual Recovery comes online quite quickly and eliminates all of the Treat Wounds cooldowns anyway.

[–] risa@pathfinder.social 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

"You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature."

the eidolon is not injured, because it doesn't take damage. the summoner takes all the damage and the healing. and if the summoner is immune to treat wounds then there can be no healing.

can't find anything more concrete about this in RAW tho 🤔 but, it just feels cheating and therefore i personally wouldn't allow it.

[–] this-gavagai@kbin.social 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Hi there,

I don't think that perspective is supported by RAW. From the Summoner rules:

Lastly, the connection between you and your eidolon means you both share a single pool of Hit Points. Damage taken by either you or the eidolon reduces your Hit Points, while healing either of you recovers your Hit Points. [https://2e.aonprd.com/Classes.aspx?ID=18]

Both can take damage and healing. The only distinction is that they share a hit point pool.

[–] HunterHog@pathfinder.social 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Seems to be the general consensus from what I've seen any time it's been brought up even on the PF2e Discord. You just can't do it off of a single effect, i.e. Ward Medic, but they can be healed individually with Treat Wounds.

And yes, the Eidolon can indeed be healed as per the Eidolon feature of the Summoner class.

Damage taken by either you or the eidolon reduces your Hit Points, while healing either of you recovers your Hit Points.

So it seems pretty clear Treat Wounds works on them. If they couldn't be injured, then they would be immune to damage which they aren't. Inferring otherwise is imposing the flavor of 'damage to the connection' or something over rules, which I'm not a fan of in a system as tight as PF2e. (That's just me, though.)

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I agree it feels cheesy, which is why I didn't allow it. But my player seemed confident that it worked RAW.

I assumed the word "injured" there was just flavour text. Is that actually the RAW reason why it wouldn't be allowed or is that your interpretation? I feel like there should be a more concrete ruling, but my player will probably accept that.

[–] risa@pathfinder.social 1 points 2 years ago

for me as a gm i always consider how everyone at the table feels about it. allowing one pc to double heal while nobody else gets that might seem unfair to the other players. so, i would ask them how they feel about this.