The exploding-heads troll communities are tongue in cheek, and intended to rustle your jimmies. You're taking the bait.
this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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And as 4chan taught us, ironic tongue-in-cheek bigotry leads to an environment where people engage in rational conversations about equitable and inclusive society.
Wait no, it leads to a cesspool of racists encouraging each other to livestream their mass shooting of “inferior” races.
You’re taking the bait of the “free marketplace of ideas”.
Very well said. This is why I am also in favor of "defederating over political preference".
Tolerating intolerance leads to violence but deplatforming actually does work to reduce harm.
We should defederate from hateful and abusive instances
Being intolerant to intolerance also leads to violence. More often then you think.
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Seems pretty free to me. For example assuming your take, it will continue to exist even if you avert your eyes.
I don't think you understand my take, but yes, it will continue to exist if i simply avert my eyes, however their content will reach and radicalize fewer people if they are defederated, and that means fewer people in favor of suppressing and killing minorities.
however their content will reach and radicalize fewer people if they are defederated
The bullshit part of this purity ideology is where "people" are presumed to be innocent rubes who can't think for themselves and who will be forever tainted if they are contaminated by even a drop of Wrongthink.
I'm not interested in having my information environment manipulated by technocrats for "my own good."
And then there's the other not-small issue: if "their" "content" is so good at "radicalizing" "people," maybe you should be addressing the substance of the content instead of engaging in definitionally futile campaigns to conceal its existence.
And then there's the other not-small issue: if "their" "content" is so good at "radicalizing" "people," maybe you should be addressing the substance of the content instead of engaging in definitionally futile campaigns to conceal its existence.
This is something that has been proven beyond impractical. Hate and disinformation campaigns have been practicing a digital gish-gallop for years, which is only increasing in pace with the wide availability of LLMs and other generative AI. The bar that you propose is rather absurd and would only be remotely achievable with those acting in good faith, which hate and disinformation campaigns do not.
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If you're saying the members of exploding-heads are in favor of and encouraging killing minorities, then no, I don't understand. And so far you're the only one who has suggested killing minorities, so I'd argue you seem a bit extremist.
Can you provide evidence that people on these instances want to kill minorities?
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I'm confused... We're talking about trying to make two fediverses here... That's kinda weird. I hear your "don't mix bleach with ammonia"... But if I see someone say that on Lemmy... Am I going to do it? How does it actually hurt me? I understand it's hateful and offensive, but this is a free and open internet, and that is one big reason I choose Lemmy/Mastodon over twitter/reddit. It's like the library... Have you ever seen something at the library you don't like. An opposing viewpoint? Do we defund the library and close it because there's a "gay comic book" in it? That happened in my area, very stupid. I come here for all my ideas, and expect to be offended by some. It's the internet. Plan to be offended... By 9am. When you wake up at 8:55a. And it takes you 4 minutes to pick up your phone.
But then again I could be a crazy conservative or liberal or something... Don't trust me.
Now where where the memes again.
Additional thought... If the people in the defederate camp just go and post things they don't like... Maybe they defederate with us... Then we don't stoop, and you get your wish? (I assume it goes both ways) 😜
History doesn't show it going that way. The bad actors often take an approach similar to EEE, seeking out potential vulnerable populations of misfits to exploit. Rammy has been effectively taken over by EH users due to absent admins and maintaining federation just helps the bad actors continue to find victims.
Let's take a look at some (US) historical examples:
- The "Gamergate" saga was coopted by bad actors to radicalize isolated young men in the online gaming community, enabled by unchecked vitriol. This led directly to communities like 4chan, which were home to shitposting internet misfits, being coopted by the far-right and repurposed as platforms for spewing hatred and sharing plans for terrorism.
- Neo-nazis coopted the fashions and musical style of hardcore punk rocker "skins" (making "skinhead" synonymous with neo-nazi and making SHARP necessary). During the 80s and 90s, said neo-nazis invaded venues, assaulting and battering attendees, while spewing forth hate. This led to not just the writing of "Nazi Punks, Fuck Off" but formation of explicitly anti-nazi bands like Reagan Youth and escalations in violence against the invaders who were trying to take over.
- Going back to the early-20th century, extremely wealthy bad actors, in what became known as The Business Plot, attempted to use neglected veterans to remove FDR from office in a coup, in order to undo The New Deal and ally the US with Axis powers. They did so by a combination of bribery and getting bad actors into their target audiences' venues under false pretenses so that they could deliver their messages in a manner intended to elicit sympathy for their cause.
How about current events? Commercial and non-commercial entities alike are pulling away from the microblogging platform formerly-known as Twitter due to unchecked vitriol, hate, and disinformation.
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I am adept enough to decide, at a personal usage level, which content I want to filter out. I refuse to be a part of a community that feels a need to make those decisions for me. SDF is one place where I know I shouldn’t have to worry about that. If you want to play content moderator, spin up your own instance and play god.
I have to wonder if the people staunchly against defederation at any cost ever dealt with redditors from hate subs following them around reddit from sub to sub everywhere they posted to keep screaming at them about trans women not being women, while also repeatedly reporting them to Reddits suicide bot to try to make them think about suicide. It's not exactly the nicest online experience and I had it more than once in my time on reddit.
To me the benefit of federation includes defederation. If it was easy to just say "get rid of all the users from r/hatesub" on reddit it would have been a lot nicer. I don't know why people are clamoring to keep hateful shit around. Go join the hateful shit instance if you want to read it so bad but I'd rather the users of an instance like that not be able to see me at all since queer people like me are who they hate so bad, and I can't exactly block all of them.
while also repeatedly reporting them to Reddits suicide bot to try to make them think about suicide.
Whoa. That's a lot more messed up than I realized. I had thought it more in line with the FB "poke and block" but that makes a lot more sense. That's just...wow... I shouldn't expect much from bad actors but that's something that makes me that much more glad that I left Reddit.
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How about grow the fuck up, snowflake? You can curate your own feed and create a precious, little echo chamber.
If they have anything interesting or non-hateful to say they'll say it on another instance. The hate they spew is only on these instances because the admins are hateful.
If there is a vote I will vote to defederate and I'll sleep perfectly well because the slippery slope fallacy is just that. If I want to see their hateful garbage I'll sign up for an account there.
Yes, please. I'm very much in favor of this, too.