this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
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Got called an Anarchist Sock Puppet (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 2 years ago by SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml
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And I’m genuinely hurt by this.

Someone in a tiktok comment section was talking about anarchists hiding cultural-conservatives but because tiktok comments are limited I didn’t really understand what they were talking about so I asked if there was a book or article I could read to learn more about this particular event. They then stated “do anarchist sock puppets read books now?” And I feel like shit. I don’t know what I said to provoke this hostility.

I know I’m overly sensitive but I actually am tearing up because of this. I hate the thought of being perceived as an enemy. I don’t know what to say to let them know I’m not a sock puppet…

Their comments mentioned something about the Chinese communists and the IWW.

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[–] EnsignRedshirt@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That kind of hostility is so pervasive on the internet. That person has some sort of weird axe to grind and they took out their hostility on you for an imagined reason. I sincerely doubt that you did anything to provoke them. Hostility doesn't always require provocation, some people are out looking for a fight and they'll pick one the first chance they get.

Sometimes good faith questions look like sarcasm or sealioning, but there's really no way around that. If someone is so wound up that "hey, can you say more about that?" causes them to lash out then that's a problem on their end, not yours.

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I understand that they’ve probably been approached by so many bad faith questions and reactionaries but damn does it hurt to be on the receiving end of their ire. Maybe a tone indicator would’ve helped, but then again maybe not. I liked their comments and followed the OP tiktok creator who I guess is their friend but they still came at me thinking I’m a sock puppet account if some American white guy. I just genuinely want to know which anarchists were protecting cultural conservatives and what the IWW is 😭

[–] EnsignRedshirt@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

These big tech platforms are designed to be outrage machines, quite literally. They have been built and tuned to keep people engaged, and that engagement is often in the form of making people angry at one another. What you experienced is an intended result, whether the designers really understand it or not, of the way these systems are built.

That’s one of the reasons big tech is awful. They do not care how their technology is affecting people or the broader system, only that it generates ad revenue. You are a victim, but so is the misguided asshole who got so wound up about nothing that they started flinging shit at strangers to feel better about themselves.

The platform wants you to stay on it and fling shit back, on and on forever. Better to keep trying to engage in good faith where good faith exists, and remember that the structure of social media itself is leading people to be hostile to one another. Only way around it is to not play that game.

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thank you! See? This is all I wanted, it’s all I ever wanted; just a link or even a title plus the author would’ve been fine. This is the only place I can ever get information without judgement or vitriol.

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You're welcome. Hopefully it's helpful! It says something about the Wobblies/IWW, at least. If it doesn't help, there's this, too: https://libcom.org/article/syndicalism-introduction – can't say I know too much about this org. Both links are a little obscure, though, as it's not clear to me from either source what ideology underpins the org.

The IWW website says they accept all 'workers' but no employers; which makes some sense but creates a theoretical problem e.g. for: workers who are also managers; employers who work alongside their employees and are sub-contracting off the real 'not-employer employers'; and 'workers' who run/manage temp agencies or sub-contracting firms. The internationalism suggests it's a Trotskyist org but that doesn't really align with these three example problems as I'd expect Trotskyists to have a more nuanced concept of class. Which suggests instead that it's anarchist. According to the second link (the first one in this comment), the IWW represents 'Industrial Unionism', which is related but different to anarchy-syndicalism. Who ever said the left is divided? On top of that, the IWW is a union in the sense that it does not dictate a political line; all workers are welcome (subject to the above contradictions, which I have no idea how it resolves).

With this brief understanding, I can see how the IWW or its members could get embroiled in tricky situations, such as protecting reactionaries (although I wouldn't want to guess and I'm not certain that it was the IWW who was accused of supporting cultural conservatives in your example).

It would be a lot easier if everyone who cared about life on planet earth just became an ML. Far less confusing, for a start, and they might be more effective.

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago

With this brief understanding, I can see how the IWW or its members could get embroiled in tricky situations, such as protecting reactionaries (although I wouldn’t want to guess and I’m not certain that it was the IWW who was accused of supporting cultural conservatives in your example).

Yeah, see that’s why I asked them if they had an article or book about that specific scenario, but instead of giving me the information they decided to be a dick about it and say I can’t read because I’m an anarchist sock puppet. They mentioned the IWW in terms of them never being able to unionize a Starbucks compared to the amount of change the Chinese Communists made. So maybe their “anarchists protecting cultural conservatives” wasn’t about the IWW, and it probably wasn’t but that just confuses me even more.

[–] rjs001@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago

The IWW is Industrial Workers of the World and is a all-workers union which was extremely influential in the expansion of the union movement in the USA. It’s become far less important and lost many in recent years but was, in the past, a huge player in the unions. I know it used to be the largest in the world but i don’t know about anymore

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 years ago

First thing to say is that here, where you make regular and longer contributions than tiktok comments allow, your input is valued and welcome.

That's it, really. No second thing.

Hope you feel better soon.

[–] ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The main thing to consider is this: would this person ever talk to you like this in person? No, they’re overly hostile because they’re online. Don’t engage with people who are immediately assholes, you actively trying to get better informed on a topic should never warrant such a response, their shitty behavior is NOT an indictment on you as an individual, you’re awesome, Comrade, keep it up 👍

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You’re comment reminded me of this:

I only asked them for more information since tiktok comment threads are practically unreadable and due to the character limitations their singular comments were hard to understand as well. Maybe they saw me as one of those “source?” People who only ask in bad faith just so they can never read what you post but I tried to word my comment in a way that was genuine. Maybe I should’ve used a tone indicator.

But I’ll keep asking questions and learning more and hopefully one day I’ll figure out what anarchist event they were referencing.

Thank you for the encouragement, it means a lot.

[–] ButtigiegMineralMap@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Not a problem, and let me just say thank you to introducing me to that quote, I couldn’t agree more. In case there’s any self-doubt going on, just know that you are not and will NEVER be a Anarchist “sock-puppet” and sleep well knowing that you are on the right side of history, these ignorant fools will always be hostile and intolerant towards anyone trying to understand things better and they’re probably just anti-learning. Any principled Marxist salivates at the thought of giving like 4-10 book recommendations on any given topic, lol if they write you off that quick, my theory is that they never had any good book recommendations in the first place

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago

One of the reasons I love it here is because you could ask a simple question and everyone will come through with so much reading material. As someone who loves to learn it’s practically heaven.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Don't ever think of yourself as overly sensitive! It's everyone else who have become calloused husks, especially on the internet. It's a terrible thing that we're so awful to each other all the time for basically no reason. You have a right to your feelings. ❤️

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I guess I considered me crying over that comment overly sensitive because they didn’t even cuss me out or threaten my life; just that I was an anarchist sock puppet. I wish we were kinder to each other online but I do understand why they’re hostile considering the amount of reactionaries they’ve probably had to deal with before me jumping in asking a genuine question. Even when others are mean I try to stay kind, unless they’re fascists, of course.

[–] SovereignState@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I've had full blown mental breakdowns over online interactions far more banal than this. Shit's not good for the soul.

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago

I’m in the same boat, it’s why I seldom reply to any tweets or make comments on tiktok. All I ever do now is like and repost. Out of the maybe five total comments I’ve made on tiktok I’ve been faced with bad faith all the time. Social media definitely puts people on edge and I’m also a victim of this; it’s one of the top 3 reasons why I engage so little online, unless it’s here.

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What did I do???? I just clarified that I was working with limited knowledge due to the nature of tiktok comments and this is what they say? By the way, they’re @‘ing the OP tiktoker, not me.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago

They're not even talking to you here. They're talking about themselves. They're complaining about something and don't even see you as a person. It's no different from when some privileged white boomer screams at a cashier for not giving them extra sauce. This person is just being a dickhead.