this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024
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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 91 points 1 year ago (32 children)

So why can't Israel support itself after decades of the US pumping weapons and money?

I'm 100% done with Israel, and that's coming from a middle-aged guy who was always a supporter. At this point, I honestly don't care if the Arab world stomps them flat. Who could I possibly give a shit any longer?!

So thanks for bringing the plight of the Palestinians into my worldview and trashing the country's reputation. I get it now. Clearly.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev -3 points 1 year ago (21 children)

I honestly don't care if the Arab world stomps them flat.

Standard disclaimer, this isn't an attempt to excuse Biden's support for Israel which is and has been unconscionable. But that being said:

I think the possibility of Israel being stomped flat is part of the calculus that underlies American support for them. They're surrounded by powerful enemies like Iran, and a whole unanimous coalition of nations full of military and political leaders who go to sleep at night dreaming of the lifelong stamp of heroism that would stem from being part of the holy alliance that finally wiped them out.

Whatever crimes against humanity their "defense" forces commit and are committing, the TV scenes of Arab soldiers gunning down fleeing Israeli civilians, ripping down the flags in Tel Aviv amid burning corpses, taking city after city, fighting a 20-on-1 dogpile of a war that would end with Israel erased from the map forever, guilty and the innocent alike, would get played on American TV in campaign commercials for 50 years. If it happened under Biden, the Democrats wouldn't win another election for at least a generation. Probably more.

And it could happen. The world is not a nice place. Part of running the State Department is dealing in horrifying outcomes like that, and it happens every year in a few places across the globe, to people we haven't taken pains to make friends and allies of (and sometimes even to people like the Kurds that we have).

We used to love like brothers and sisters various leaders all over the world who did genocidal things like Netanyahu, and I'm sure we still do, but it's not an everyday thing now like it was in the 80s and 90s. But there's some kind of crazy disconnect that fuels American support for Israel. There's a popular theory on Lemmy that it's simply because Biden is evil and loves genocide, and certainly AIPAC is a part and simple racism and lack of care for dying civilians in the Mideast is a part, but to me I think one of the powerful drivers is the fear of what might happen if the rest of the Middle East ever got the idea that they could try to fuck up Israel and the US might not be there to make sure it didn't happen.

Let the accusations commence. Like I say, I'm trying to explain, not to excuse, and besides nothing in any of that above would have stopped them having the CIA snatch Netanyahu three months ago and deliver him to the Hague in a rubber sack with a note that says "We still love Israel but this guy can get fucked."

[–] koper@feddit.nl 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The scenario you describe is so far from reality that it's hard to take as something other than a creative writing exercise. Israel is not existentially threatened at all. The IDF is far better equipped than all the other countries in the region and Israel was just in the process of normalizing relations with some of its neighbors, including Saudi Arabia. All the military support from the USA isn't saving anyone, it's just funneled there to keep the military industrial complex happy and kill Palestinian children as a byproduct.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 10 points 1 year ago

The IDF is far better equipped than all the other countries in the region

Individually, probably so. Collectively?

There's a fuck of a lot of countries there. Some of them (Saudi Arabia) have bigger militaries than Israel even individually, and some of them (Iran) have lots of land and people and some certain amount of money, and lots of alliances with lots of rowdy guys with guns and rockets.

Israel and MBS and the West being all buddy buddy with each other and fuck what 99.9% of the people in that part of the world think about it, is one of those things that can change.

it's just funneled there to keep the military industrial complex happy

I won't at all disagree with that. All the homies love big weapons packages. Whatever else is going on in the world, throwing over a hundred billion dollars to weapons suppliers is always a popular decision in DC.

and kill Palestinian children as a byproduct

I don't at all believe that killing children is affirmatively a priority in Washington. I think that depending on the nationality of the children, it can be an acceptable item on the balance sheet to be factored in against other priorities. 😢

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