It's just so peak 
Uncritical support to the Fremen Jihad in their heroic struggle against the illegitimate cracker empire
this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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Here's a list of tons of leftist movies.
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It does, but then that narrative cuts against the Fremen being the good guys, which they absolutely are. Herbert attempts to subvert the white savior trope by going “well akshually the white savior could lose control and the religious crazies will be even worse than the evil imperialist empire” which is where the problematic part comes in in Messiah.
The story is actually more anti-imperialist if we accept the white savior trope and accept Paul as a good guy, cause otherwise we have to accept Herbert’s reactionary narrative that de-colonial movements are bad and go too far and might be worse than colonialists. That well intentioned and noble movements are easily coopted and used towards nefarious ends. This is the Liberal view of communism, that the stupid masses get manipulated into doing the will of the leader that has little to do with the goals of the movement. Making the Muslim stand-ins dumb and impressionable is pretty sus.
Basically Herbert put us in a double bind where either way it’s problematic, because he is fundamentally a liberal and has that Liberal brainworm where there can never be a justified liberationist good guy that improves the world. Any attempt to change anything makes everything worse.
The timing of Dune 2 and the visuals of an Islam-coded guerrilla force in the desert destroying technological imperialists has lead to a lot of its appeal, people love seeing these evil scumbags getting blown up and eaten by worms. People associated that with Palestine vs. Israel and thus really connect with Paul’s Fremen plot line.
That’s going to get real awkward in Messiah where the plot is basically “the Muslims got out of control and went too far and killed billions, and in fact the Israel stand-ins were the lesser evil”
I don't think Herbert was making the point that decolonial movements are bad. Going on a galactic killing spree isn't decolonizing. Liet Keynes was the environmentalist decolonialist. Paul however was another imperialist.
If you read the books its clear Herbert is a die hard historical materialist. Paul and Leto II will literally give lectures on it.
Well that’s why the whole series falls apart for me personally after the first book, because it doesn’t make any sense how the Fremen from one planet could overpower the entire galaxy - especially considering most of the fighting is no longer in deserts but in space or on other planets. The population from one desert planet could never defeat the entire galaxy.
The Fremen invading everywhere else makes no sense from their perspective, they just wanted Arakkis back, or from a realistic strategic perspective. It reads to me like Herbert got upset that people liked Paul so much after first book so he laid it on really thick that he’s space Hitler and killed billions and invaded everywhere - despite that not making any sense. He contrived the plot device that the scary Muslim hordes killed a hundred billion (sound familiar to any anti-communist propaganda you may have heard?) to own his readers. It doesn’t make any sense within universe, it was a meta device.
White people’s boogeyman fears of decolonial movements are that they will invade everywhere and kill everyone in bloody revenge, which almost never happens in reality but it’s what Herbert made his Muslim stand-ins do. You are right that jihad against the entire universe isn’t decolonial, but it is the white reactionary’s idea of what a decolonial movement is
The explanation that would make sense to me is that there were contradictions all across the empire held in stasis but not resolved by the Imperial throne. When Paul ascends he basically triggers them all at once.
Slave and peasant rebellions. Great house feuds. Ethnic and religious tensions. The Fremen turn up to places and find people fighting already using supporting or opposing Paul as their excuse.
Like you couldn't rebel (good) or kill your rivals (neutral) or ethnically cleanse a minority (bad) without Shaddam and the Sardakaur possibly intervening, but now you can if you're quick enough to raise the banner if Atreides.
That would have been very interesting indeed if Herbert ever set that up or incorporated it into the plot, but he did not! Sand ubermensch just go on an undefeated killing rampage unopposed and people from one sparsely populated planet take over the whole universe by being really good at knife fights.
And if those "billions" of deaths throughout the universe were slavers and feudal lords getting got, can't say I think it's the great tragedy Herbert tries to paint it as.
I'll go back and time and get Frank to fix it.
I don't think it would be all righteous terror. We see historically when some empires collapse (Ottoman, Austro-Hungarian, Russian etc) some people in the chaos decides it's a good time to do a pogram or genocide.
The only people described as doing pogroms and genocides are Paul's own Fremen troops
I agree the books have scant details and could be much better, and less eugenist.
I think that with limited methods of communication deciphering the specific circumstances of all the conflicts on an incomprehensibly huge number of world's, after the fact would be difficult.
Have a great day. I'm out.