this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2024
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They believe Jesus was a sacrifice that freed us all from the Original Sin and opened the Kingdom of Heaven to everyone.
It's deranged. God could have just snapped his fingers and said "okay y'all are saved now" but instead he had to torture his own son to death for no reason. I guess it's to be expected, God also created evil because he wanted to know his children really love him. Manipulative freak.
his own son who is also himself, if you're not one of the factions who think the trinity are separate entities. The whole thing is a mess.
I had a metaphysics seminar in grad school with a girl who was working on the mereology (part/whole relationship) metaphysics of the trinity. It was just pure Scholastic bullshit--literal "angels on the head of a pin" nonsense--even in the context of a class that wasn't exactly grounded in practical concerns.
I like the interpretation that Jesus sacrificed himself to free humanity from the existence of God but in classic fashion humanity interpreted it in the opposite, status quo wins again.
gnostic gang
There's another theory that it was part of Jesus as the 'Jewish Messiah as foretold' but also the new 'Messiah of all mankind' that Jesus' death symbolized God creating an aspect of itself to die in a blood sacrifice to himself as a way for God to synthesize the entire thing and do away with original sin, the blood sacrifice, the exclusivity of the Covenant with Abraham and the "mistake" of burdening his beloved creation - which was in his image - with original sin. It was God's way of saying "I'm sorry, bro" to all mankind by living as a human and dying by human hands.
Or that's something I dreamed up when I started smoking weed while casting off the last of a pretty devout but liberation theology kind of Catholicism. But I swear that's a thing I've read elsewhere. But it could be weed thoughts. It could be where the whole "Jesus is wholly God as God wholly God, different but the same" etc from the trinity in Catholic school of thought from uhhh Council of Nicea days I believe. It's been a while since I plumbed these depths.
What movie is this
What were all the previously-dead doing up until then, waiting in purgatory for Jesus to hurry up and be born & die already?
Catholic doctrine says that in the day between his death and resurrection he went to hell and saved all the souls that didn't have a chance to listen to the Gospel.
It's fucked that they were in hell in the first place, but what can you do
Well that's how the system works, bud. Wait until you hear what God did to anyone who wasn't on Noah's ark...
Yeah
.
Another thing: isn't a second in hell supposed to feel like an eternity? So even if you died 5 minutes before Jesus did, it felt like forever while he came down to pull you out of there. Double fucked
I mean, regardless, won't ppl like yk, kinda phase out in hell... I mean, there's a point in which that torture and torment just kinda bores you in your mind, and just acts simultaneously as a secondary torture and peace...
Either way, I guess for them, those decades where nothing happens turned into weeks where decades happen...
Note: Idk about you, but I thought the non-Christian dead would be stuck in purgatory or at least in limbo, which isn't really hell but rather a special administrative area of hell....
Edit: oh wait nvm, Jesus picked them up on his long weekend vacation to hell.
~~They're still in "purgatory". Though it's actually just straight up hell.~~
From catholic.com:
~~I think they literally don't have any chance of going to heaven. Just because they were born too early and their great*100 grandparents ate an apple.~~
:sicko-yes:
Ok, then how would they appreciate their salvation more now, without giving them a hard-hitting message, sweaty!
Seriously, though, saying this is the equivalent of saying "Trotsky invented racism to stop all political debate". This is just pure bad-faith slander on your part. Is this what the deranged evangelicals think of, as 'atheist' beliefs?
I don't think I've seen God intentionally create evil DIRECTLY in the Biblia...
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2045:7&version=KJV note that's not me picking KJV, they default to it.
and there's ordering the genocide of the amalakites, instructions for how to scam your slaves into not being a temporary deal, the child sacrifice "test"... textual crimes of god in the "good book" would take several hours to go over if you want all of them.
Ok, on second thoughts... I'd change my mind on that...
He's the demiurge, the creator of everything.
So! Who created the Serpent?
Humans are special because we're the only creations with free will.
So why does the Serpent tempt humanity?
It's all a fucking test for humans to see how much we love God.
omnipotence and omnipresence preclude the existence of free will. Either god knows everything that will happen, in which case every choice a human ever makes including ones which condemn them to hell are all part of something god set in motion and is ultimately responsible for, OR god is not actually all knowing and able to foresee that
I don't care what weaselly arguments christians have invented against this in the last 2000 years to "um akshually" me because as far as I am concern this is case fucking closed
Did he intend for that angel to fall from grace and turn evil?
That being said, I guess you can criticize him for his relative inaction when it comes to that negative side of his creation...
Angels don't have free will! Only humans have that, that's canonically what makes us so special.
That angel was created to fall from grace from the very start. Just God play-acting with His dolls.
Ok, now you're bringing mudpies into the argument...
State me ** a bible verse where God mentions "free will" being only inherent within humanity** or I will think of it as pagan revisionism, like that people did with Christmas and Easter...
Let alone the prove that Free will is canon within the bible....
Huh. Totally thought it was canonical. My bad!
Though, uh, "free will is apocryphal" doesn't really contradict my point? If there isn't free will in angels or humanity then it's all just God playing with his dolls.
Well, as I should say, it's up in the air... free will, in this case, could just not necessarily be exclusive to humanity...
It still leaves the problem of God being all-knowing and perfect.
He created the Serpent fully knowing that the Serpent would go on to tempt humanity and cause the Fall.
Why not just not create the Serpent? Seems pretty intentional to me, even if the Serpent had free will.
idk how anybody could defend the christian god, he literally goes into a bet with satan just to fuck up a dude's life to prove that he actually loves him, and wow, god wins, so that man's life is restored right? sure, but not all his fucking kids or his wife, they're just fuckin' dead, for a bet
he literally sent a bear to maul a bunch of kids for making fun of a bald man