this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2024
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Woah now, you better not be insinuating that men and women are anything but exactly equal in their temperament. The salty dudes on Lemmy won't let you get away with telling them otherwise.
I've been in a handful of conversations over the last couple weeks with men on this platform that don't understand the concept that women have to treat men a specific way for fear of the few of them that can be violent.
Apparently watching out for your own safety as a woman by treating men differently is sexist and completely unacceptable.
No, no, you're supposed to treat everyone fairly, the exact same way and always assuming they are the best, most stable people who would never react adversely to a "no" or any other negative occurrence.
And then when you run into that statistically inevitable crazy person, just let em beat you to death! You wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of all the perfectly decent people you met before then, would you?
Big giant /S
This is unfortunately one of those cases where the mere existence of dangerous individuals makes being a little unfair with the rest of us completely warranted.
Men killing women and women being afraid of being killed by men is apparently exactly the same thing, and we're sexist for even noticing it. How dare we make them aware of an uncomfortable truth that they were successfully ignoring?
As always, noticing bigotry is the real bigotry.
It's not a hard concept to grasp. Thank you for saying it, and don't pay the salty dudes here any mind. I readily tell the ones that argue on behalf of their egos to just talk to any woman they know about this, and I always get some half-cocked "well they're bigots too" line.
Like yeah sure, every woman is explicitly taught by other women not to put themselves in a potentially compromising position with a man because all women are secretly bigots.
The male ego is such a fragile thing.
Thanks for saying that. The sheer volume of unadulterated bullshit can be a little bit gaslighting sometimes.
I wanna add that it's a delight to see someone competently explaining something that needs to be more widely understood.
This is what social media should be for. The ever advancing push towards consensus and common understanding.
Bear in mind Lemmy is an overall very leftist platform. Claiming an outside observer can tell a man from a woman is going to attract downvotes, let alone going on to list alleged specific differences.
Note to readers, because I am used to Lemmy: Anyone assuming I agree or disagree with any given take on gender differences can fuck off. My actual post conveys no opinion on them.
You're completely correct. Normally, I'm on the side of not assuming people's gender and I'm of the mind that you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover.
But, because of the safety and personal ramifications crossing the wrong person can have, I think it's important that we acknowledge a woman's right to seek safety in a situation she perceives might possibly go south for her. That includes the prerogative of not putting herself in a situation that she perceives as risky to begin with.
Maybe that concept would be better accepted if it were expanded to "Anyone should have the right to avoid danger they think they might be in"
I've honestly been taught that blanket statements about sex/gender are usually not fine. So this sort of shit feels wrong in that sense and of course hurtful when you're at the receiving end of a negative blanket statement. I'm sure many can agree with that sentiment in general terms, whether it's based on skin colour, sex/gender, sexual orientation or whatever.
I mean treating all men different is sexist and prejudiced. There's really no way around that. Whether this sort of blanket prejudice is justified in this case, could be. But also that's not a great look, to justify statistics or stereotype based prejudice.
1 in 3 women experience sexual assault of some kind in their lifetimes. 99% of the perpetrators are men.
It's not unreasonable for a woman to avoid putting herself in a situation that a potential predator can take advantage of or retaliate against her for. Talk to a woman you know about this. I'm tired of having this conversation with men who don't understand and just get offended.
You have been on the receiving end your entire life if you are a man, and 9 times out of 10, you have not noticed because it does not affect you. It's not about you, especially if you aren't a predator.
Easy solution would be to talk about it in a manner that doesn't need a clarification that's you don't think all men are like that. That's really the issue with the way this is discussed.
Nobody is denying the situation here, but rather taking offence to being labeled because of their gender.
I'm sorry but receiving end of what?
Believe me, that's not the solution you think it is.
Unfortunately, people who take offense will find ways to deny the situation. The fact is, if you're walking down the street and a woman 100 ft out moves to the other side before crossing you, she understands that there is a slight chance you might be a danger to her.
That's discrimination that you can neither control nor fight against as a man. It also doesn't affect you if you weren't planning on assaulting that woman. But just the fact that it is done rustles so many jimmies because the knee jerk reaction men have is "well I wasn't going to assault anyone so that's messed up". But that line of thinking is a way of framing the situation to make it about you. It's not about you.
What I'm saying is, women don't think all men are like that. That would be completely ridiculous. But statistically, enough of them are to warrant not being immediately trusting of strangers that can biologically overpower them in every situation.
Bro. I quoted you. The receiving end of "a negative blanket" against men
How come?
I'm not talking about someone switching to another side of the street because of my gender or skin colour or any other reason one might discriminate, but rather the discussion that talks about a group as thing singular thing and makes it seem like it was all of of them. Not to mention going after people who obviously take offense to being labeled in such a way. I find it fucked up and I don't see any reason to do that.
It wasn't clear what you meant. Hence the need for clarification. But I got what you meant now.
I directly answered that in the same comment. Unfortunately, people who are offended will find a reason to take exception of the situation. There's no amount of drawing examples that will satisfy the type who only sees that they personally are being attacked and not that it's more about mitigating risk.
I try to illustrate the reasoning every time. As I have with the following example I made to you. The usual reaction is "well actually the woman in question is still a bigot for avoiding me on the street because she doesn't know me", or a similar sentiment in which the offended person runs head first into the point and still misses it.
Well first, I'd like to congratulate you on being the only person I've encountered so far who's interested in the discussion and not the reaction.
But also, I'd like to say that anyone who hears the reasoning "women have to be cautious around men because some men are capable of violence" and jumps immediately to "women think all men including me are violent and that's wrong" is sorely missing the point.
No one is going after men who take offense at that line of logic so much as those men who are loudly voicing their misunderstanding of a concept which goes on around them all of the time that they have only just noticed. It seems that your concept of "going after those men" is just people who understand the situation trying over and over to explain it.
As someone interested in the discussion side of this issue and not the actual conflict, which you seem to understand, please tell me how you would handle someone strongly asserting to you that women are bigots because they avoid men or treat them differently when they don't know how they're going to react.
I'm interested to hear how you might improve an exchange with someone who doesn't allow the reasoning that women should be allowed to cross the street 100 ft before crossing you in the interest of their safety.
I don't think it's about finding it personally offending but rather that it does paint all men in a certain light and I just don't think that sort of generalizations are good.
I mean I think it went a bit further than that.
If you are acting differently towards someone because of their gender (or skin colour or religion), that would make them prejudiced at least. So I wouldn't argue that point. I'd probably say they are prejudiced but that might be out of fear rather than malice and rather focus on what to do about that.
Look, I'm not going to sit here and debate the ethics of a precautionary behavior with you because you, like many other men, misinterpret the behavior itself as a slight against men as a whole.
There's no way I can do that without venturing into the realm of defending that kind of prejudice, which you'll inevitably take as an invitation to just say is wrong on principle.
Here's the thing. The kind of person you'll be responding to will cover their ears and say prejudice of any kind is wrong. You won't convince anyone that way.
I literally had someone tell me the last time I had this discussion that the act of determining to do something based on the gender of someone is the very same as determining to do something based on their race. So it's also racism.
There is no winning that. Once someone is bent on being against prejudice on any order, they will make false equivalencies to bludgeon their point.
Let me ask you something: For a solution short of reeducating the world's men, how come the onus is on women to be forced to take a chance with someone who they don't know how they're going to react?
Why are we looking at a situation where a woman might say "I shouldn't walk alone from the gym to my car because there was this one guy staring at me and I saw him go out just before me" and saying "That woman is obviously a bigot, what can we do to correct that behavior?"
I honestly don't think there's anything to do about this. There's no way to make women be less prejudiced against men in these situations that doesn't also inherently raise their risk of being assaulted.
The only thing left is a man who will insist that a woman take the chance of raising her risk so that his feelings don't get hurt. But here's the thing. The worst that can happen to that man is his feelings get hurt because a stranger doesn't trust him. The risk to a woman is an actual, physical thing.