this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2024
525 points (95.0% liked)

News

31447 readers
3024 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

A pro-Palestinian protest action briefly blocked all traffic on the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco Wednesday morning.

Starting at about 7:45 a.m. Protesters stopped cars and stretched banners across the roadway denouncing Israel's bombing of Rafah in the Gaza Strip and demanding that the U.S. stop arming Israel.

Northbound and southbound traffic on the bridge was at a standstill as of 8 a.m.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It looks like you might be done arguing because you can't quite reconcile your belief that it's not a genocide with the fact that there's a clear intention to eradicate Palestine as a nationality, which fits one of the definitions of genocide, right?

[–] Pratai@lemmy.ca -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m done arguing because i don’t exercise futility. It’s a pointless debate. I don’t just make up the rules to things so they can fit my agenda because I have no agenda.

I’ve no dog in that race and therefore have no bias. And having no bias allowed me to see it objectively and without any manufactured emotional outrage.

It’s not genocide. By definition, or U.N. policy.

[–] SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don’t just make up the rules to things so they can fit my agenda

But that's exactly what you are doing. I presented the definition of Genocide (as outlined in the 1948 Genocide Convention), I also provided evidence that they are targeting Palestinians based on their Nationality, and that they are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.”

Though if you need a more express proof than Netanyahu's statements to show they are committing their atrocities based on Nationality, here is another fun quote from Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s statement during an Oct. 13 press conference. In his statement, Herzog said,

“It’s an entire nation that is out there that’s responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true”

So let's just highlight in bold what Isreal has done that checks the genocide defintion boxes:

Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. — Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[7]

You didn't contest that they were committing large scale atrocities such as "Killing members of the group based on their affiliation", that they were "Causing serious bodily and mental harm to members of the group", and that they were "Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part". Nor did you contest the fact that they were targeting these actions based on national affiliation. So we have agreed that Israel sure has committed alot of the acts that define genocide, but to fit your agenda, you keep just repeating "IT'S NOT GENOCIDE", as if putting it all in caps makes less boxes be checked.

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee -5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I that's your definition of genocide, you'll have to call every war a genocide

[–] SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Well, technically it's the definition of Genocide as outlined in the 1948 Genocide Convention, but I am willing to accept their definition.

Regardless, you can't think of (or even imagine) a war that wasn't fought to completely eradicate, in whole or in part, of a group based on a nationality, ethnicity, race or religion?

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I sure can and that's exactly the point: fighting to end a nation =/= genocide. Genocide = to eradicate a group of people

[–] SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Sure, but Israel isn't simply fighting to "end a nation" as in the nation state and it's government. They are targeting civilians and refugees, and trying to forcibly end the group identity that is Palestine. Saying that all Palestinians should relocate, and targeting non-combatants indiscriminately, based on nationality, is genocide.

Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[7]

Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence.

He says Israeli leaders expressed “explicit, clear, and direct statements of intent,” pointing to Israeli President Isaac Herzog’s statement during an Oct. 13 press conference. In his statement, Herzog said, “It’s an entire nation that is out there that’s responsible. It’s not true, this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true,” Herzog said. “They could have risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d'etat.” (Herzog later said that he is not holding the civilians of Gaza responsible for keeping Hamas in political power, when asked to clarify by a journalist at the same press conference.) Segal says that this language conflates all Palestinians as “an enemy population,” which could help prove intent.

Edit: Also, after rereading my comments, I can see how I didn't make the through line clear, and thus why you assumed I simply meant that "wanting to remove a government = genocide", which it obviously does not. My intent was that the quote from Netanyahu regarding the intent to end Palestine as a sovereign state would show that, combined with my aforementioned comments regarding the large scale destruction and intentional targeting and displacement of civilians, their goal is the complete destruction of the group based on Nationality. That Palestinians would not only have lost the right to self-governance, but would be all killed or scattered throughout the world, absorbed into other cultures, and thus cease to exist.

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

Would you think there is a difference between harassing your neighbours to the point they move, and lining them up against the wall and executing them?

Do you think the Israelis would be satisfied if all the Palestinians packed their bags and resettled somewhere else?