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The American political system has done nothing but ratchet to the right for about a hundred years.
It's so far right that people think liberals are left wing. That shit is center right lmao
That was my thought when they said X identified as conservative, Y liberal, the rest moderate or unsure.
How about none of the above since they're all right of center?
Are you guys referring to the labels as applied to the Democratic party, or the people who self-identify as one or the other?
Because while I think it's generally fair that the Democratic party is center-right (largely absorbing any half-relevant positions Republicans once had), self-identifying liberals especially of youth and women probably are leftist despite colloquially referring to liberal. In that respect I'd imagine most of these people are effectively Social Democrats by European standards; meaning a mixed bag of regulated markets combined with a strong national government and select nationalized industries (eg, medical insurance). Basically the Nordic Model.
So liberal in exactly the same sense American democrats are.. People not liking that "liberal" is a negative in any circle left of those who consider themsleves that, doesn't change what it means..
https://medium.com/the-simulacrum/the-nordic-model-is-not-a-socialist-model-it-is-capitalist-bbe828d17a8a
https://truthout.org/articles/fascism-is-possible-not-in-spite-of-liberal-capitalism-but-because-of-it/
No, not necessarily. Social Democracy is one-step further left on the spectrum when considering a balance between Free Markets versus total nationalization and closed markets within the purview of a functioning Democracy. In essence, a truly mixed economy with a strong welfare foundation and regulator control rods for the markets. For all intents, the progressive-left of the Democratic party are Social Democrats while the mainline "corporate dems" are ostensibly Liberals.
Tankies dreams' aside, markets & trade aren't going away anytime soon.
That's a lot of words to say you don't understand what liberalism is.. No mount of "strong welfare" counteracts support of capitalism and the oppression and inevitable fascism that comes with it. Because yes, necessarily.
The fact that you think me saying all of this makes me a tankie is a perfect demonstration of your lack of understanding of these terms and ideas (and/or of your unwillingness to challenge your bias and think outside of the parameters capitalism has set for you).
Cool.
Classical Liberals and especially Neoliberals (what the Democratic party is) are solidly against nationalized industries and while liberalism is ok with either laissez-faire or regulated markets, neoliberalism is strictly anti-regulation.
Socially democratic nations (Nordic nations being the most consistently socially Democratic) have nationalized industries (Norway has its energy, transportation, finance, and communications all nationalized).
Probably the closest the US has ever been to social democracy was when social security and the new deal were enacted. The Democratic party has never been majority Socially Liberal to my knowledge, which is one step right from Socially Democratic, which is yet another step right from Democratically Socialist.
I mean that's what I am, the problem is whenever I use the word social Democrat as an American people have no idea what I'm talking about so I just call myself a Christian socialist instead. After all that's just a more muscular version of social democracy.
How many environmental regulations were there in 1924? How many black people could vote? Child labor laws? Could you vote in primaries, or did party bosses in literal smoke filled rooms choose a candidate? Could states shut down newspapers and ban non-Christians from holding office?
If we go back about ten more years, women can't vote, and Senators are still chosen by state legislators rather than a popular vote.
Why are leftists so quick to forget their successes?
For real; that comment was either made by a child, or someone severely ignorant of history
This is a pet peeve of mine: the term “liberal” has gone through a semantic shift in the US. It used to mean “generally left leaning”. I think maybe the word “progressive” has taken on this role now.
I think the confusion comes from the fact that many European languages always used the cognates of “liberal” to mean “free market”, I.e. “economically conservative”. This is also how the term is used in some academic fields, like economics. But this is precisely the opposite of the other meaning!
It’s pretty clear the article is using the first meaning. They even use “leaning left” interchangeably with “liberal”.
My theory is that since Americans have been interacting with Europeans more online since the 2000s, the terms have become conflated.
To not spam same text I will link it
Liberals/democrats ARE left wing. Always have been. By definition the term is based on seating arrangements during the French Revolution. Democrats have always been considered left wing, just as republicans have been right wing. It’s just that now:.: the tankies think they own the term.
However- in reality… the FAR LEFT has distanced itself so far from the left wing that it doesn’t even resemble what it began as.
I think you might be misunderstanding the French Revolution. By the time those seating arrangements were in place there weren't any conservatives left. The ones on the right were the Liberals the ones on the left were the leftists. The girondins were in no way conservative. The mountain was in no way liberal.
I wasn’t talking about French democrats/conservatives. Just where the terms came from.
Yeah they've really gone off the rails with this whole "don't block strikes" and "don't support genocide" nonsense. /s
The gaza war is not a genocide
You can call it whatever you want buddy. Only question you have to ask yourself is do you think Biden needs my vote? If not then just ignore me.
Words have meanings. Not every war is a genocide. There's no attempt to exterminate Palestinians. Gaza is as dense as New York City. If they were trying to wipe out Palestinians there would be far more deaths than there have been.
Call it whatever you want. I don't want the U.S. supporting Israel in it. I won't be voting for Biden in 2024.
The Republicans used to be the more liberal party. The parties literally swapped platforms at one point.
https://www.studentsofhistory.com/ideologies-flip-Democratic-Republican-parties
You're absolutely correct. But I would say on a global scale the American Democrats are still centrist because they embrace managerial capitalism.
They're not even really social Democrats like you see in Europe.
Not even a global scale, just literally as compared to Europe.
Eurocentrists are hilariously blind to their own prejudices. Y'all always say global this, global that when you're exclusively referring to Europe.