this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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chapotraphouse
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Often times what you've been told is "authoritarianism" by socialists is actually a different organisational structure of democratic institutions that fundamentally produces a more democratic outcome than the liberal democracy you're familiar with. The problem for socialists is that it's very easy to slander a system nobody fully understands, and it takes a considerable amount of learning and investigating to learn that the system is actually good and provides more democracy, not less, DiEM standing for democracy in europe movement. This is in fact the angle that one of the main multi-country European socialist coalitions are pushing at the current moment in time, more democracy, not less. The point is that liberal democracy doesn't produce democratic outcomes and that is because it is structurally designed not to.
The Cuban system you are currently learning about here is actually a slight variant on the Soviet system.
China also uses a variant, with their own differences, as does Vietnam and several other socialist countries. Each have their peculiar differences, what's important to understand is that liberal democracy doesn't come in one flavour, it is adapted and different in every country, the same applies to socialist democracy as well.
This can be a lot to take in and a very deep rabbit hole to go down. I'm quite happy to answer any questions.
So the part I don't get is how a lot of these countries end up with the same leaders for life? You think if they were so democratic that they'd change out occasionally. I know the USSR changed leaders a few times after Stalin and not sure what's happening with Cuba now, I think they just put in term limits, but before that there was Stalin for decades, Fidel Castro for decades, Mao, now Xi Jinping, etc. Keeping one leader for that long gives an opportunity for them to centralize power.
I also worry that so many representative layers dilutes the people's will from the bottom to the top, but to be honest, I have no idea of that's true or just a gut feeling. I'd have to see some study, like the one that showed that popular will doesn't seem to affect whether something happens in the US unless rich people are also for it lol.
Other than that, it sounds pretty good. I definitely have to do more research in that European democracy movement. We could definitely do with some more democracy in the US (less gerrymandering, no electoral college, etc.). Thanks for the explanations!
Typically it's because to win the election in the first place, you need to be pretty popular. There are cases of unpopular leaders who, while they did some things right, had such massive problems that they were tossed out -- Khrushchev is the perfect example of that, but if someone proves that they are good at what they are doing, as Stalin did, as Fidel Castro did, and so on, people are going to generally support that person. Even when someone has a real decline in the quality of leadership (see Mao, though I think the issue is overstated beyond sheer senescence right at the end), if they were involved in something like personally saving the party and leading the revolution to victory while overseeing a doubling in life-expectancy and an end to the vast majority of colonial occupation and reactionary practices like footbinding, spread in literacy and healthcare, etc. etc.
Each of those individual things can completely change someone's life for the better, so you get a whole lot of good will you need to burn through by fucking up before people abandon you.
An example of this perspective can be seen in part of a talk Michael Parenti gave:
spoiler
If someone taught me to read when I grew up illiterate, gave me a hospital where before the nearest one was many hours away, gave my family a way to safely make a living, I'd probably be grateful to him for the rest of my life, too.
Now, there's the matter of what should happen, because term limits are principally reactionary (money has no term limit, so it ends up controlling elections that have them), but age limits* are necessary and part of the reason for the customary term limits in China after how old Mao got. We have yet to see what Xi will do or how long he will seek re-election for, but the thing keeping him there is that he has transformed people's lives by the tens of millions and improved lives by the hundreds of millions, so they believe in him.
*Or cognitive assessments
Do you have a link to that talk, or just that quote in particular?
https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/d8evq0/a_transcription_of_michael_parenti_on_the_cuban/
Thank you!