127
It happened again. The show ended a decade ago isnt there a new mysoginy they could move on to?
(hexbear.net)
this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2024
127 points (100.0% liked)
movies
22818 readers
5 users here now
Rules for Movies & TV Discussion
-
Any discussion of Disney properties should contain a (cw: imperialism) tag. If your post isn't tagged appropriately it will be removed.
-
Anti-Bong Joon-ho trolling will result in an immediate ban from c/movies and submitted to the site administrators for review.
-
On Star Trek Sunday only posts discussing how we might achieve space communism are permitted. Non-Star Trek related content will be removed and you will be temporarily banned until the following Sunday.
Here's a list of tons of leftist movies.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Robert is an abuser and no amount of affability should obscure that to anyone who's paying attention. I get why he's liked, and you analysis of that is good (besides the idea that he only hurts people accidentally, disagree with that.). And i think you make a good point that the problem is mostly in ASOIAF/GOT rather than the fanbase for simply following cues. But it does still bother me that fans dont seem to get that Robert is an abuser.
This is my main problem i think. The Littlefinger example is probably better than the Robert one in that sense. But i have seen a lot of feminist analysis pointing out Cersei being hated for the same traits men are liked for, and Robert is often an example. Another one i didnt bring up though is Tywin.
Also i think the real example of fanbase mysoginy is the treatment of early season Sansa, as she was despised for acting like a normal teenage girl. Always been a source of bitterness for me that she was my fave starting around Blackwater, and other people getting on board when she "got cool".
But she didnt fit the "older blonde woman who is hated by the fandom unreasonably" point i was trying to make lol.
Not trying to argue against most of your points, but if you re-read book 1, you realize that people hate Sansa because (at the beginning of the story) she's a little brat who brazenly ignores what her father tells her to do and, in so doing, gets him killed and her entire families' lives (her own included) utterly destroyed (remember that while Ned idiotically warns Cersei that he's going to rat her out, it's Sansa who shows up and provides Cersei with all of the details of Ned's plans, in the process of whining about having to leave the city).
Obviously she grows a great deal as a character over the course of the series, but it's very easy to start hating her early on, and that kind of impression can be hard to let go of.
CW:SA
Sansa is a child who screws over her sister in a childish way in pursuit of a fairytale romance, and suffers rape, humiliation, violence, trauma and hourly threats for it. She is an idealist who believes all t he conflict is a misunderstanding that could easily be fixed because she's like 12, and sees her family die for it. Sansa is absolutely overhated as a character in a way that's obviously rooted in part by misogyny.Yeah, I agree, and I don't think I even disagreed with anything you've said here when this conversation started anyway, but even moreso now after reconsidering the source material more carefully. When I wrote this I was offering the reasons why people might come to hate her early on, based on my own feelings during my first re-read ("dammit Sansa why would you go to Cersei, of all people? AAAAAA you're literally getting your father killed right now!"), and also then probably affording people too much benefit of the doubt for not recognizing her character's growth as the series continues.
I still view early Sansa as a very flawed character (terms like entitled and self-centered spring to mind), but I think my own issues led me to hold her more accountable than was fair (see elsewhere in the thread).
Edit: Actually, I think I do have to point out one flaw here:
CW:SA
In the book series, at least, I don't believe Sansa is ever raped; the girl who suffers at Bolton's hands is actually Jeyne Poole.Also, please add a CW for the SA reference.
spoiler
She is not raped by Joffrey. She's groomed by Petyr, and possibly assaulted by The Hound. She is also stripped naked in public which I would count as sexual assault.Tyrion also leaves her alone, despite constant pressure from literally everyone around him to do otherwise. And then she's just in a series of unrealized bethrothals.
Anyway, this doesn't detract from your overall point: she suffers horribly for whatever relatively minor sins she's really guilty of, and yet people hate her far more than is justified, and well past the point at which she's genuinely not the same person she was at the start of the series.