this post was submitted on 05 Jan 2024
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the_dunk_tank

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It's the dunk tank.

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[–] robinn_IV@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Humans like to divide things, so like things that "we" do gets one name, whereas things that "other" forces do gets a different name. Even though it's all the same DNA under the hood, and what survives is what manages to survive, good bad or whatever.

I agree. In my view, as far as applying “natural selection” to humans, why should medical development be ignored? Is it not just the accumulation of knowledge from past generations which managed to survive due to this knowledge? When humans choose to help others, is this not because we are social creatures who survive/thrive by working in communities? How is any of this any more “unnatural” than otherwise? What determines human action other than the past developments and their social/natural conditions?

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 2 points 2 years ago

An interesting video demonstrating that cooperation even emerges from non-organic, non-living algorithmic constructs: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM. Basically, the whole idea behind the "Prisoner's Dilemma" was stupid (or rather it does not apply centrally to everything) bc irl we see the same people on a daily basis and that changes EVERYTHING! In fact I recall a book from Daniel Dennet suggesting that religions were even developed along similar lines: to extend natural kin selection beyond people that you have known all your life, and even people in your own country, to others around the world. Sidestepping the question about does God exist and if so which one, and all the harm it has done, he at least suggested that it was a phenomenon that could be studied by scientific means. I got busy finding a job and never finished it - he is so dense! - but I thought I would share the thought. e.g., comparing religious thinking to enlightenment is not helpful in terms of understanding human history bc the only thing existing at the time were tribal vs. the new innovation of "religion", whereupon the latter seems to have thrived more than the former.

Separately, there is something real to the thought of artificial selection, and that is stupidity on the part of the designer, rather than the cruel but therefore the epitome of "fair" natural ones (we all play by the same rules: the laws of physics). I mean in particular the royal inbreeding that makes weaker bodies, who may be no better than anyone else - and in fact lesser in many ways than many others, not in spite of but b/c of their ancestry - but since they are held up as "superior", are given enormous sums of money, off the backs of the poorest peoples no less, just to live it up (life) however they see fit, wining and dining and partying and the like. The last I heard, the justification for keeping the royalty in place was that in the end, they could act as a check upon the Parliament of the UK. But then they did not stop Brexit, they did nothing about Boris Johnson, and so on. So then what DO they do, and why are they considered so "superior", enough to give money to for life, in return for... again, whatever it is that they do? This is at least one form of "artificial selection", and unlike looking back upon millions of years of natural selection, may very well cause a dead end in that gene pool. Ofc, natural selection caused MANY dead ends, but we happen to know that humanity was not one of those... at least, not so far:-). Thus it may grant us a false sense of superiority - like, "we haven't ended humanity yet, therefore despite all the evidence of MANY dead ends throughout history (e.g. dinosaurs), I conclude that we never will, so we can do whatever we want, without fear of consequences".

The deeper we dig, the more we understand precisely why we believe as we do, and where those lines begin, end, and connect with what lies outside of them, perhaps even being in opposition to them. Which reminds me: check out that video - it sounds like you'd enjoy it!:-)