this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2023
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chapotraphouse

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[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago (9 children)

Why not use your limited time on this Earth to build your comrades up instead of tearing them down in private? Why do you need to mock people, especially if your mockery hits your comrades in the crossfire? Is this a materialist analysis aimed towards revolutionary praxis or is this you just wanting to get more upvotes with le burn?

[–] Saeculum@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago (8 children)

Magical thinking in all its forms should be mocked. It is harmful to the thinker, dangerous to the people around them and is the root cause of a great deal of all the world's problems.

I don't begrudge our religious comrades their faith, but I do not have it, and to someone without faith, all religion can seem to be is delusion.

We all work toward the same goal, so it is important to be openly polite and cooperative, but I am never going to treat any claim of gods or spirituality with private respect, and nor should people be obliged to withhold their opinions while amongst the like-minded.

Is this a materialist analysis

Materialist analysis has never treated religion very kindly.

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (7 children)

is the root cause of a great deal of all the world's problems

Idealism. Claiming that ideas are the root cause of a great deal of the world's problems is the opposite of materialism.

Materialist analysis has never treated religion very kindly.

It has actually treated religion very kindly and respectfully. Like Marx read the bible repeatedly in multiple languages. He told his wife to seek spiritual edification in the jewish prophets rather than a secular church. His analysis of religion is constantly and consistently respectful and to the point with the notable and glaring exception of people who say "i'm a christian/jew/etc" and then ruthlessly exploit their workers. And even then, Marx's disrespect is usually quoting scripture to show how far they've gone from it rather than "lol u believe in man in the sky".

Marx actually admits to an existence of a ton of abstract, non-material social things in Capital which exist, objectively, without a material form. The entirety of communism is a belief that Marx had could become reality. As many indigenous folks have argued (for example, deloria jr. in "Same old Rock" in Marxism and Native Americans) Marxism is itself a religion that demands taking a lot on faith (revolutionary optimism is faith; belief in revolution is faith; belief in an eventual better world in the future? Faith.

And if you read indigenous activists, theorists and so forth (e.g. Coulthard Red Skin, White Masks) you will see it argued very strongly that indigenous religions/spiritualities are materialist in that they are methods of describing and organising empirically obtained information, disregarding theology which no longer holds true to investigation. When you research religions besides Christianity in the global north in particular and organised hierarchical monotheistic religions which developed to support material inequalities and sufferings it becomes very evident that this is how most of them work, except for the religions of the nobility who write things down and get obsessed with literalism.

If you don't mind my asking comrade what sorta investigation into religion (past or contemporary) have you done? What sorta investigations into the structure of science and how it works (e.g. Kuhn The Structure of Scientific Revolutions; Siltoe ed Local vs. Global Science or Aikenhead and Michell *Indigenous and Scientific Ways of Knowing Nature) have you done?

[–] Saeculum@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

Idealism. Claiming that ideas are the root cause of a great deal of the world's problems is the opposite of materialism.

Magical thinking is a behaviour, not an idea.

Marxism is itself a religion that demands taking a lot on faith (revolutionary optimism is faith; belief in revolution is faith; belief in an eventual better world in the future? Faith.

It is absolutely not faith, Marxism is a series of conclusions drawn from evidence.

indigenous religions/spiritualities are materialist in that they are methods of describing and organising empirically obtained information, disregarding theology which no longer holds true to investigation.

Spirituality cannot be materialist. Methods of describing and organising information that assumes something beyond what is observed is fundamentally not a materialist approach.

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