this post was submitted on 24 Dec 2023
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KYIV -- Ukraine will likely receive it first shipment of advanced F-16s in the next few days, Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told President Volodymyr Zelenskiy in a phone call as Kyiv seeks to disrupt Russia’s air superiority over Ukrainian skies amid continued battles on December 23 in the east and south of the country.

"Today, I informed President Zelenskiy of our government's decision to prepare an initial 18 F-16 fighter aircraft for delivery to Ukraine," Rutte said late on December 22 in a post on social media platform X.

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[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

Rutte heavily destroyed the country's Healthcare system and introduced student loans. The Dutch healthcare system is starting to look more like the American one every year.

He randomly let the entire cabinet fall on a non-issue that his party now doesn't even care about anymore to get a new coalition going.

The requirement for peace isn't more war planes to bomb the middle east with though Westerners can not seem to imagine having peace with anyone by not violently oppressing them.

[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

Rutte heavily destroyed the country’s Healthcare system and introduced student loans. The Dutch healthcare system is starting to look more like the American one every year.

Correct, but irrelevant to military spending.

Military spending is still low and it is possible for a country to spend a bit more on defense and have a good healthcare system.

Giving Ukraine some 30 year old F16s, which were going to be scrapped anyway, costs almost nothing compared to what is spent on healthcare. Suggesting you have to choose is a logical fallacy.

If anything, giving Ukraine some more military aid, reduces the risk of Russian invasion or increased provocations, which in turn reduces the need to increase military spending in the long term. Giving Ukraine some more military aid now, ultimately means we will almost certainly have MORE money to spend on healthcare.

He randomly let the entire cabinet fall on a non-issue that his party now doesn’t even care about anymore to get a new coalition going.

Correct. But this has little to do with buying new planes, a decision which was made decades ago (if it wasn't the brits would still be using spitfires), or sending Ukraine a few 30 year old planes.

The requirement for peace isn’t more war planes

Incorrect. The best way to ensure peace, is to ensure your military is strong enough to deter foreign countries from invading.

Eg. North Korea vs. Ukraine.

One has nukes. One had nukes. Guess which one was invaded?

Appeasement doesn't work. Claiming you're neutral doesn't work either.

Didn't work the Belgians during WWI.

Didn't work for the Netherlands during WWII.

Didn't work for Latvia. Didn't work for Lithuania.

Didn't work for Hungary in 1956.

Didn't work for Ukraine in 2014.

Westerners can not seem to imagine having peace with anyone by not violently oppressing them.

The Chinese and Russians certainly can't, judging by what they've been up to in Ukraine, South East Asia, Xinjiang and Sudan.

The problem seems to be that a lot of people assume European supremacy and can't conceive of us being the victims who need to defend ourselves from Imperial powers. That's why like you they can't grasp needing planes for anything other than foreign wars. Because you've never experienced war, you don't seem to grasp what the primary purpose of a country's military is defence not foreign interventions or humanitarian missions.

The reality is that we are incredibly weak because we've spent far too little on defense for decades, and because Europe has been stagnating in relative terms, and has been for years. And yes, that is costing us money and jobs.

[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

War has never been beneficial to an economy unless they're selling the weapons instead of waging war with them.

There is already a job shortage and you say we need to waste even more workers on making weapons because jobs? Because bombs are going to build houses or something? Especially now the economy is stagnating

The west has been massively oppressing other countries for about a century now with their "defense". But you have not read any history. Afghanistan and Iraq, Palestine, Syria, and many others don't exist according to you.

Sudan has been ruined by France and NATO for the last few decades. Peace is not gonna come from the Russians but it sure won't come from the West either. Do you need to defend it or colonize it?

Destruction is becoming cheaper than ever just look at israel's billion dollar defense system being wrecked by 30.000 Hamas members with improvised rockets. If you want to win wars with these costs you'd better be a thousand times richer than your enemies.

This extra spending has nothing to do with previous purchases. It's about spending even more on more on western backed terrorism like the Dutch are doing against the Houthis to support israel's Genocide. The extra budget won't be used defensively, knowing NATO that's for sure.

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