this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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chapotraphouse
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Well I am far from a lib if you read my other comments, though it seems like you are the type that might actually go through them all and find some hint of libness or something.
Anyway, off the top of my head, things I disagree with the Chinese state on include being mass surveillance society, and their long stated, and recently reiterated, position that Taiwan rightfully belongs under Chinese rule.
Oh right, I am also actually against the widespread standardization of the various different languages in different regions of China to 'Simplified Chinese'.
In my lifetime I have had the chance to speak with many different persons born in China. Some were wealthy, sent to America for college and spoke excellent English. Some were wealthy and sent to America for college and spoke basically no English whatsoever. Many, many others, working class, spoke little English but had great fun communicating to me via the aid of translation apps... I was about as bad at 'Chinese' as they were at English, but we always laughed about it.
I say 'Chinese' in quotes here me because different such Chinese people from different regions, if they do not know the common tongue of Mandarin / Simplified Chinese... they actually cannot understand nearly anything said, or even written, in the actual native 'dialects' of their regions. Canton/Hong Kong, Nanjing/Beijing, Shanghai... they are functionally entirely different languages.
For more on this:
https://asiasociety.org/china-learning-initiatives/many-dialects-china
To me this means that the standardization of the Chinese language into 'Simplified Chinese' functionally constitutes the erasure of the ancient and native tongues of huge portions of the population, and reminds me of what America has done to Native Americans, at least in terms of functionally making it so that very few grandchildren can speak the language of their grandparents.
Now, given how you have already established that you like to jump to the conclusion that I am a lib, I also now have to state what should be obvious but otherwise in this context would not be without specification:
America and basically all of the developed Western countries (UK really stands out) are also mass surveillance societies, as are others.
And no, I do not think that Taiwan is some kind of magical wonderland, it is a capitalist society and thus has all the problems that come with capitalism. And yes, I am aware that its modern government derives from basically the remnants of Chiang Kai Shek and his army, and more or less the basically just-out-of-feudalistic-nobility class of wealthy capitalists that managed to flee with him.
That being said, I do believe that now, nearly 100 years later, having been their own society for that long, it is at the very least not ethical for another state to assert their ability to govern a people who generally speaking seem to me at least to be fiercely opposed to that.
If I am factually wrong about any of this, I would appreciate it if you could correct any glaringly false things my views here are based on, or if you could point me to somewhere I could learn more.
Ah so the non-existent oppression of Chinese Taipei and the “surveillance” that’s less strict than most western nations like Britain
Very cool 😎
I didnt say anything about whether or not Taipei is or is not oppressed by China.
I am curious as to how you determined that the UK's surveillance is more strict than China's though.
For starters, the UK has some of the most intense digital surveillance laws in the world, for example:
The snooper's charter
DRIP (although this one was repealed by EU courts, it's back on the table again post-BREXIT)
On top of that, UK laws around protests severely restrict what can he deemed a legal protest. And police can arrest you on suspicion of protesting in a "disruptive" way. During the king's coronation, six people were detained on suspicion that they might possibly strap themselves or their signs to something.
In the wake of those Just Stop Oil ones gluing themselves to stuff, glue was added to the list of items a police officer can "stop and search" for with no restrictions (take one guess at the sorts of people the cops like to target with this).
You're probably aware of the "spy cops" scandal, well a bill a coupla years back was put into place to prevent any legal recourse to people targeted by spy cops and gave protections to secret service types caught torturing people.
This isn't an exhaustive list, just a few examples.
Also, this should in no way be interpreted as a defence of China's surveillance state. Just that the UK is currently even worse about it.