this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 33 points 2 years ago (7 children)

I hope this is just preparation for a victory lap, maybe even just mocking them now because a lot of (pro-Russia) analysts already came to a conclusion the current borders are far from sufficient. Likewise it is almost impossible to conceive Ukraine will cede unoccupied territory so again, I'm not sure what he is trying to do here other than to take a piss.

The pre-war goals, the most important being NATO neutrality? You'd be a damn fool to believe this will be enforceable without Russian troops sitting within 15km of Kiev for the rest of eternity or something like that.

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 46 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I hope this is just preparation for a victory lap

Nothing about this shit-show deserves a victory lap. It was the bloodiest and most pointless mass immolation of life and livelihood since Iraq. At the absolute best, Russians get to claim a charnel house littered with depleted uranium. More likely, they'll be doing anti-insurgency across the country for decades, while the rest of Europe grows increasingly fascist and racist towards Slavs.

I'm not sure what he is trying to do here other than to take a piss

All wars are just a prelude to diplomacy. I think Putin is putting out interest now so he looks better on the international stage, before Biden loses the White House and Republicans come to the settlement table ready to kick this under the rug so they can pivot back to China.

The pre-war goals, the most important being NATO neutrality?

NATO gets to come out of this with more money, more members, and a renewed mandate to battle its age-old nemesis. I think NATO general staff might be the ONLY folks coming out of this for the best. Maybe with the exception of the Chinese, who have finally broken through the old Sino-Soviet split and as senior partners to boot.

You'd be a damn fool to believe this will be enforceable without Russian troops sitting within 15km of Kiev for the rest of eternity or something like that.

I don't know how many Ukrainians are left standing to do the next Pickett's Charge into Russian artillery fire. And given how easily Russian artillery has demolished critical infrastructure in and around Kiev, I hardly think they need to be west of Brovary to pose a threat.

The enforcement comes from Russian artillery placements. Donetsk will be at least as secure as Pyongyang.

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 35 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It was the bloodiest and most pointless mass immolation of life and livelihood since Iraq

That's crazy, how was this more pointless than Libya, Donbas, Afghanistan, Armenia, or Palestine? More bloody sure, but Russia's reasons for entering are justifiable for national security

Don't tell me that Russia thought getting sanctioned by the rest of the entire world and entering a proxy war in a massive country was somehow expected to be a net economic gain like everything the West has done since Iraq

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

That's crazy, how was this more pointless than Libya, Donbas, Afghanistan, Armenia, or Palestine?

Strictly by volume. I don't believe any of those reached the scale of the Russia Ukraine war in the comparatively brief time period.

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