this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2023
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Solarpunk technology

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Solar panels have always bothered me because they require such intense manufacturing and usage of scarce resources. TLDR of article: "Many people will argue that if low-tech solar panels are less efficient, we would need more solar panels to produce the same power output. Consequently, the resources saved by low-tech production methods would be compensated by the extra resources to build more solar panels. However, efficiency is only crucial when we take energy demand for granted, sacrificing some efficiency may gain us a lot in sustainability."

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[–] schmorpel@slrpnk.net 10 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Please be careful with terms like "unused desert". Whatever "green" developers call unused land is usually some kind of ecosystem with an established community of human and non-human inhabitants. They are forced out and big "green" money moved in, with their hydro, wind, solar, lithium mining ...

Forest mountain landscape not far from here will be torn up for another green tech, lithium, because those who can afford it want to get to nice forest mountain landscapes in their eco cars, for their eco holidays. Pasture lands not far from here are now filled with the stupidest of solar installations: nothing but panels. They could have the same old herds of before clean the land between the panels, but instead its all fenced off and probably treated with roundup, or motorized machines. And people want more cars, more air conditioning because every summer it gets hotter, and the spiral of "ever more" continues.

Calling arid or not obviously landscaped spaces far away from you "unused" is dangerous and will expose the last wild landscapes of earth to abuse. It's bad enough as it is.

[–] benjhm@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Well I was thinking of the central Sahara, and parts of Arabia etc., these areas really are vast. Sure it would change the landscape, but not so much life. It may be better to make cheap (the op is about low-tech) electricity there, than for example get to 1.5ºC pathways by BECCS (generate electricity with biofuel from plantations, then pump CO2 underground) which is much worse for biodiversity. Your examples - forest mountain, pasture - wouldn't be called desert - at least not in english (the interpretation may vary with language), it's a more extreme term than arid.

[–] activistPnk@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

If solar energy is collected from such remote areas, is there perhaps a show-stopping problem of transmitting that power out to city? Transmission has huge losses over great distances.

There was a recent proposal to cover train tracks and (I think) some segments of rivers with solar panels. One of the problems IIRC was transmitting the power. My memory is a bit fuzzy on it.. not sure why they couldn’t just directly power the electric train that runs below them.. but whatever the issue was, it might be the same issue as the desert would have.

Your examples - forest mountain, pasture - wouldn’t be called desert - at least not in english (the interpretation may vary with language)

You can’t really trust layperson’s common English here. There are vast forests which are not being tagged as “forest” because a majority of trees don’t reach a certain defined height. These non-forests are useful for decarbonization but they’re being cleared on the basis that they are not technically a “forest”. So now there is a movement to protect these non-forests.

[–] benjhm@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 years ago

Re transmission - yes there are increasing losses - but the OP is about cheap panels, so cheap electricity. It doesn't have to go so far, for example I'm thinking that the population in the Sahel is projected to increase a lot - that highest fertility in the world, as these regions develop they'll need electricity.
As for your non-forest, I'd call that scrubland, certainly not desert - which implies to me sand or bare stones, deserted by almost all life not just by people. Of course flowers can bloom even in the desert on occasional years after rains. Indeed the whole Sahara was much greener, only a few thousand years ago, and maybe could be again if we could work out the secret. But that's still a perturbation, and even with solar panels, there'd be plenty space left.

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