this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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These countries tried everything from cash to patriotic calls to duty to reverse drastically declining birth rates. It didn’t work.

If history is any guide, none of this will work: No matter what governments do to convince them to procreate, people around the world are having fewer and fewer kids.

In the US, the birth rate has been falling since the Great Recession, dropping almost 23 percent between 2007 and 2022. Today, the average American woman has about 1.6 children, down from three in 1950, and significantly below the “replacement rate” of 2.1 children needed to sustain a stable population. In Italy, 12 people now die for every seven babies born. In South Korea, the birth rate is down to 0.81 children per woman. In China, after decades of a strictly enforced one-child policy, the population is shrinking for the first time since the 1960s. In Taiwan, the birth rate stands at 0.87.

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[–] ExLisper@linux.community 17 points 2 years ago (3 children)

The real reason why people don't have kids is because they suck. Kids are stupid and annoying. More and more people are waking up to this fact and starting to resist the social pressure."I can actually live my life instead of dedicating all my time and resources to something I don't even need? I'll have two of that please!"

If government wants kids let them raise the kids. Pay women to give birth and then put the kid in public system. Problem solved.

[–] Femcowboy@lemm.ee 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean, kids only really suck in a world where both parents have to work 40+ hours a week. You really don't have to dedicate all your time to them, but in a world with less and less community to help raise them and more and more work to grind your energy down, you have to dedicate far too much of your limited free time to them. I would love to be able to raise a kid or two myself. I loved working with kids. We should not be throwing them into some nebulous "public system."

[–] ExLisper@linux.community 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah, I'm not talking about the public system seriously. It's just to show it's not really about systematic solutions. We can come up with government supported solutions and they would be bad.

And I totally agree that if you don't have to work raising kids is not that terrible but it's also not really a solution because most people do actually want to work. If you give people a choice between kids and meaningful career a lot of people will still choose career and birth rates will still be low. And a lot of people will still simply choose not to have kids because even when you don't have to work bringing up a kid is actually really really difficult. My friends and co-workers keep having kids and yeah, sleep deprivation, no social life, no time for hobbies, lots of extra expenses, constant infections, hard time travelling even short distance... And that's only the first year or two, before any behavioural issues start or you have to decide if you prefer to give you're 10 yo unrestricted access to the internet or have him excluded from everything his friends do.

[–] Sodis@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The information you get might be biased, because people love to vent about bad stuff, but do not mention the rewarding stuff, that makes it worth it.

[–] ExLisper@linux.community 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah, I've heard that argument and I don't buy it. What I see is people that are really burned out and borderline depressed. I don't believe a hug from their child before sleep fixes that. I believe it keeps them from going crazy but I don't think it makes it all worth it. Most people will simply not admit it because it's taboo.

[–] Sodis@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well since we are at anecdotal evidence. I am in the academics bubble, where quite a few of my friends also got children and they love it. You don't like kids, so you see all the problems that come with having children. You are looking for confirmation bias. There are more than enough people that do not hate children. I mean, we are kinda biologically programmed to procreate.

[–] ExLisper@linux.community 5 points 2 years ago

I totally get what you're saying but I think there's just so much pressure from society that it's all terribly biased. Last week I saw another very long article from a woman wondering if she should have kids or not and the comment section was full of people talking like they just realized having kids is optional. Watch any American TV show and you'll see how ingrained the idea that having kids is mandatory is. Average person is so programmed by society and media to have kids people think it's just what you have to do and yes, they will try to justify it but saying that it's actually very rewarding. I'm not saying that no one should have kids but I actually think that very few people have kids because they enjoy it. We're talking couples with good jobs, good benefits, lot's of family support and lot's of money. Most people don't have any of this but they still have kids.

[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

You were a kid, though. Adults aren't just spawned, they grow from kids. Everyone seems to be talking about them (and old people, for that matter) as though they are a separate species of being. Kids are just immature people. Of course they suck. You did too, so did I.

But they are also awesome, and grow up to be adults. I had fun having kids. Taking them places, watching them grow and change, the funny things they say and the flashes of insight. Now most of them are adult people. I don't care if they have kids, they should do whatever they want. But I did enjoy the parenting. Sure, it's not convenient, it's life.