this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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I am more than a little confused as to why airlines or other transportation companies don't get back into operating ocean liners again. We got people even pitching outlandish ideas like building blimps or "sky ships" when ocean liners are proven technology, extremely reliable, fast enough, and have known economies of scale that can actually work if you can fill the cabins.
A lot of people would be fine with 4 days to cross the Atlantic and 6 days to cross Pacific (modern ship doing 35mph) if it meant hotel, or motel like, accomodations rather than the living hell that is a transatlantic flight. Get crazy by lobbying governments to issue commercial licenses for small modular nuclear reactors in maritime applications, no better excuse than decarbonizing an industry that realistically can't be decarbonized any other way.
Anybody that has a full time job could never do this because 4-6 days each way means your PTO for the year is half-almost completely gone from just commute
People who can work remotely have enough money to buy plane tickets over this
It would only disrupt the leisure habits of the top 15% of people in the US, most Americans would be unaffected. You ever wonder why it's the top 10% globally (only top 15% of US is in global top 10%) that contribute over 50% of all carbon emissions? It's because normal people aren't using their paid time off to spend the weekend in Europe or Dubai. The world worked just fine before the commercial jetliner enabled New York to London in 7 hours and for a majority of people it still is that pre jetliner world.
Vast majority of Americans regularly don't go more than a few hundred miles to vacation, if they take vacations at all and not being able to spend the weekend overseas is a non-issue. For those that do travel abroad for vacation, it's somewhere still in America like Mexico.
The majority of people in North America aren't spending weekends in Europe. For example, each year there around 30 million tourist arrivals from the US to Europe and based on the statistics of what percentage of Americans travel abroad at all, many of those are the same individuals traveling to Europe multiple times each year. For many Americans if they do travel overseas it tends to be something done after retirement, if they do it at all. Around 27% of American adults have never traveled abroad in their lives and another 19% only do so once. (Pew Research). This includes traveling to Canada or Mexico not just traveling overseas. I can't find any exact numbers but a sizeable percentage have to be because they joined the US military and it's on the governments dime. It's literally the top 11% that are regularly traveling abroad.
If you mean business travelers, just like wealthy assholes who need to regularly vacation in Europe, they can also stop making weekly/monthly commutes between the western and eastern hemispheres.
It's cute that you think I'm only talking about Americans. So American it's not even funny anymore. I made that range to be inclusive of non-American PTO averages
Also what's the point of spitting out all these statistics and facts that the wealthiest are the ones that travel the most. I know that. That's my point. Companies aren't going to introduce commercial ships because the wealthiest people are the huge majority of their revenue and the gain to be made by having ships is negligible
I also never suggested it'd disrupt the leisure habit of anybody. Why would that even happen? You're literally making enemies up in your head
I'm not going to bat for heavy overseas travellers bruh. I have no idea what you're upset about. I don't disagree with what you said. It's just irrelevant
My point is that trans oceanic jetliner travel is unsustainable full stop. It's quite literally bourgeoisie decadence that is destroying the livability of our planet for everyone else. Did you not even read the article we are commenting on?
It has to be ended and something will have to replace it. It's going to have to be a return to ocean liners making direct trips and electric prop planes island hopping PanAmerica style, both of which make the trip take days rather than mere hours. Airships are possible but they have a unreliably due to being at the mercy of weather and wind conditions combined with helium being an extremely finite resource (already running out, exponential price increase) that is not renewable.
Your insinuation that trans oceanic jetliners can't be gotten rid of because working class people not having the paid time off is what I found ridiculous. Felt like New York Times Opinion section peices arguing why the author needs their decadent treats and acting like said treats are a common thing rather than luxury. Your use of words like "inclusive" in the follow up was icing on the cake.
Your words not mine:
Then following up:
Not sure why you used paid time off (PTO) as the core reason for why jetliners from New York to London can't be replaced if you actually meant business travelers whose companies can't afford the time. Make up your mind.
Honestly these discussions make me realize how fkd we are, that it's going to come to a lot of bloodshed as the PMC and their masters do everything in their power to avoid giving up their treats.
you know I think you probably could do hydrogen airships with modern safety standards. It's flammable and "leakier" than helium but planes and cars are also full of flammable and/or explosive fuel and we manage that part well enough
I agree with you. It's just you commented "I'm confused why don't these companies do ..." and I explained they would never because it wouldn't be profitable for them
Like yea, what you said should and could be done if these airliners weren't all beholden to the profit motive but your wording make it seem like you're confused why companies wouldn't do this clearly unprofitable thing in a world where most airliners only exist to make money