this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
812 points (94.5% liked)
A Boring Dystopia
13418 readers
524 users here now
Pictures, Videos, Articles showing just how boring it is to live in a dystopic society, or with signs of a dystopic society.
Rules (Subject to Change)
--Be a Decent Human Being
--Posting news articles: include the source name and exact title from article in your post title
--If a picture is just a screenshot of an article, link the article
--If a video's content isn't clear from title, write a short summary so people know what it's about.
--Posts must have something to do with the topic
--Zero tolerance for Racism/Sexism/Ableism/etc.
--No NSFW content
--Abide by the rules of lemmy.world
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
We can criticize Israel, while condemning Hamas terrorists
And we can make aid to Israel contingent on future improvements on the treatment of Palestinians.
(And prosecute the IDF and Israeli state in international Court for crimes against humanity)
I like this, we should do this, for sure. Nobody can claim it's unfair.
At this point, I would argue that Israel has done more for Hamas PR and popularity than anything in the last 20 years.
I was pissed off at Israel when I learned that we can't have a single-payer Health Care Program because we are too busy funding the one Israel has. Learning how they treat Palestinians just puts a seal on the fuck Israel deal.
Israel is a little bigger in area and population than the SF Bay Area. We don't lack single payer health care because we are paying for Israel's. We don't have it because our government is in the pockets of those who benefit from us not having it.
Oh I understand that, but I do despise the hypocrisy that America Rejects single-payer healthcare claiming that they can't afford it, but they are willing to fund it for people who are not our people. Charity is one thing, but foreign aid should never come at the expense of One's Own people. While I understand the situation is bigger and more complicated than that, and that most foreign aid is just code for funding military operations and bases, it's still irks me that a single Cent is being given out in foreign aid when we have people who are starving and dying on the streets.
I would be all for America first if it actually meant anything outside of a racist dog whistle.
There is absolutely nothing the US does in regards to foreign policy that comes at the expense of accessible healthcare. The US already spends more per capita than any other country.
Because individual purchases (bandages, pills, hospital bed rental) costs over twice as much in the States than it does anywhere else. And those who do afford it get inferior care.
Breaks your heart doesn't it?
The US actually spends more public money on healthcare per capita than almost any other country. And then Americans pay for private insurance on top of it. And for all that, many Americans don't even get healthcare. Contrary to libertarian propaganda, a publicly funded program is more efficient, as are many publicly funded services over their privatized alternatives.
Well obviously, a public refunded program seeks only to fulfill the goals of the program. Meanwhile a private organization is not beholden to customers or workers, but to shareholders
Fun fact: We also built a single-payer system in Iraq.
Blame the British and the holy scrolls.
the same israel which offered countless peace offers to the Palestinians(which promptly rejected them) or the same israel that literally pulled out of gaza entirely leaving them the full option to make a thriving city state like Singapore, but instead they decided to buy guns and rockets and make everyone's life miserable?
I mean, I suppose if you ignore all history up until like a few weeks ago that makes sense.
Do you think if Hamas dissappear tomorrow, those who throw garbage will stop?
The reverse. If the garbage throwers stopped, if the Israeli state ensured that Palestinians were treated humanely and were ensured civil rights (say in accordance with the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights) then Palestinians would have no need for revolutionary organizations like Hamas or Hezbollah. But so long as the Israeli state disregards the suffering of Palestinians, so long as Israelis are allowed to commit violence against Palestinians, so long as the IDF seeks to massacre Palestinians, there will be need for militants to fight against them, and so Hamas and Hezbollah will find cause and find recruits among the friends and family slain in Israel's name.
The thing is we all know this. This is COIN 101 material from two to four centuries ago. And short of the threat of nuclear holocaust, humans historically are eager to hate more than they are willing to do what is right to create and preserve peace. Netanyahu and the IDF have demonstrated to be no different, even when the US warned them of its own hard-learned lessons in Fallujah. Gaza is proving to be even worse than was predicted.
And why do you think they hate Jews?
Because of how Israelis treat them.
That conflict may have lasted 70 years, but those citizens certainly haven't.
For the last 2500 years, the Jews have been the bad guys. That's why they're worthy of hatred
Speaking of naïve...
The internet has demonstrated the people of seperate nations don't hate each other intrinsically, but are driven to hate by rhetoric and doctrine fueled by precarity or adversity.
Regardless, my prescription comes from classic COIN philosophy, not identity politics propaganda. Besides, if bullies — those with the capacity to decide whether or not to cast garbage on thosr weaker than they — continue tonharm when they choose to stop, it is their behavior that fuels hatred and justifies their reputation.
Plenty of jews are kind and even protest the IDF offensives. But those who toss rubbish on Hebron Palestinians are showing a different character.
It's not black and white.
If the elements of Hamas, namely the promising of death to all Israelites from Palestinians disappeared, then relations would improve and yes the garbage would stop. But it would still be a process that takes time to build trust between the people.
I don't agree with your analogy.
What I said was more along the line of, "America electing a black president is a major step to eliminating racism, and it wouldn't happen overnight." I'd point out that I'm just fixing your analogy, not that I am making that statement.
Part of the systematic change requires one side to not want the complete elimination of the other.
Remind me how did the the reservations in the US go for people like the Osage even after they signed treaties? Oklahoma is still Indian country, right?
We can condemn violence, while recognizing that it didn't come about in a total vacuum as people play it up as to paint Palestinians as evil terrorists.
Correct. Hamas is an evil terrorist group that slaughters innocent people and also Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people and need to stop, or be stopped. But not by killing random people, because this isn't the bronze age anymore.
No, seriously - give me a good reason to condemn Hamas. As long as they are the only ones willing to lift a damn finger against a white supremacist settler-colonialist state they will receive no condemnation from me.