cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/8181688
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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2023
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Anarchism
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If the anarchists in the soviet union were allowed power, general plan Ost would have come to fruition. Anarchists have historically not been able to lead mass industrialization in a coordinated way, and have not been able to lead successful military campaigns across territories as large as the USSR. If the soviet leadership didn't protect the revolution from anarchists, part of my family would have died in a death camp instead of being liberated from one by red army soldiers.
But the tankies stabbed the pure hearted anarchists in the back! Okay, maybe the anarchists shouldn't have been idealists who cared more about coops than actually prosecuting a successful socialist transition. Literally read Lenin's interaction with the anarchist prince.
Because its not anarchists job to do that but worker's job, and they are very good at self-organizing.
You say this as if they had multiple chances to do so lol.
The anarchist workers didn't do a good job. The popular front workers did a better job, the Soviet workers did a better job.
They had a chance in Catalonia, a much smaller field, and couldnt coordinate there.
Ah, at least we come to the crux of the disagreement. "Anarchists, babies! MLs, strong!". It always comes down to that, but it's refreshing to see you just straight up say it sometimes, so that people can see it.
Anyway, please take your historic fiction in the appropriate places. I can pull stories out of my ass as well, but that convinces no-one.
PS: I like how you sneaked in that call to emotion at the end. Very manipulative. Love it!
Have you read anything about the failures of coordination among the anarchist militias in Catalonia? Or their failures of economic coordination beyond the local level?
Have you even absorbed the critiques enough that you are in a place to argue against them?
Because this is serious stuff that you should be educated about before you make judgements about it.
I'm very sympathetic to anarcho syndicalism, but it showed its weaknesses in Spain and sectarian anarchists blame it on the USSR instead of learning from it.
It is not socially well adapted to declare "appeal to emotion" when someone is communicating why something is personally important to them. What I'm doing is expressing myself in a normal human way, and you consider that manipulative?
Ah, nice try, but I already told you I'm not going to debate you on the Spanish Civil War. Why don't you go to the places where there's anarchists up for that sort of thing?
You implied that not crushing anarchists would have directly led to a successful genocide. Ye it's pretty manipulative.
I asked you if you've even read anything about it, not if you want to debate me about it.
It isnt manipulative to point out that my family would have been killed if the anarchists won, it is giving you an explanation for why I have little sympathy for complaints by anarchists repeating the "stabbed in the back" myth instead of actually digging into the history of their project and learning from its failures to do better next time.
That's how they get you! taps forehead
lol, yea it is. You don't have any idea what would have happened if the anarchists won. Maybe they Spanish revolution would have worked without the backstab and Hitler would have expended himself. Who the fuck knows. It's pretty manipulative to posit a major historical event going completely differently would have worked out the same way except that it would have led this one really horrible thing which everyone has an emotional reaction to. Cmon...
If the goal is to get you to read yes, that is the secret tankie plot, to make you a better anarchist who is able to grow from previous failures instead of acting like an aggrieved post ww1 german soldier.
Were any anarchists talking about the need for massive industrialization at any cost in the late 1920s early 1930s in the soviet union? No? Then if the anarchists were in charge, yes, the nazis would have won and been able to implement plan ost.
Tell me when the novel comes out.
Asking you if something crucially needed to defeat the nazis was even documented as on the radar of contemporary anarchists isnt writing a novel.
This is the same USSR that invaded poland alongside nazi germany in 1939 yeah?
If you masturbate any more furiously in this thread you might faint from dehydration.
The difference is that I shit my pants and cry when you respond to me
Apparently shitting my pants is enough to have two dozen hexbears hopping mad to the point that they're trolling through the comments days later trying to dunk on me. Stay mad, bby!
Everybody who calls me on my behavior is mad and no that's not a transparent coping mechanism
Oh sorry I didn't know "you shit your pants" and similar terms was your collective hexbest at a call out.
In that case I do apologize for thinking the random shitposts on random comments were due to anger. You're clearly trying.
Not sure where you think you have the standing to call other people out for not putting effort into their posts when that is exactly the criticism being directed at you that you're choosing to wallow in rather than address.
You are shitting your doo doo pants trying to maintain your smug sense of self all over this thread. You can't engage in good faith so you're pulling boomer quotes about pigeons playing chess and mugging at the crowd like they're on your side to begin with.
You want to be treated respectfully, you seem to be implying. Deserve it first. Stop acting like a smirking piece of shit and you'll be taken seriously. Or as seriously as you deserve to be taken when you're in the barrel for posting something extremely stupid in the first place.
I'm not doing that though. I'm just saying y'all just insulting me randomly doesn't constitute a call out l. It's just you all letting collective steam, because you're kinda upset.
No one is insulting you randomly. Not a single person. not a single insult.
Erasing context and intent from everything people say to you is the most pathetic, juvenile coping mechanism I've ever seen.
Why not address the specific criticism I made of you in that parody dialogue of your actions? When you cried like a angry child about people putting words in your mouth for reading the words you wrote? And then asked you to clarify and you petulantly refused?
That's a specific criticism you could choose to remember right now. Why not take a swing at it? Why not be honest instead of dishonest? Why not act smart instead of stupid?
Why are you choosing to be a worse person and putting more effort into it than you would have if you just acted like a reasonable adult?
Simple , because nobody can engage in good faith with patronizing blowhards like you. I had no trouble engaging with other people, feel free to check. But until I now you're only deserving of ridicule from me. Start engaging like an equal, of you want respectful discussion next time.
Absolutely delusional. Your interactions with others is what you're being judged for. I had an entire day of watching you acting like a child to make my impression. It's not like it wasn't pointed out to you over and over again. So it's not like you aren't aware when you say this shit. You know you're being a dishonest, smirking piece of shit. So fuck you trying to reverse your responsibility onto others.
Not mad at all. No siree.
Mate, I've been responding to y'all how you deserve. You want to be patronizing? you're gonna get ridicule back. You wanna sealion? you gonna get trolling back.
Hexbears have been sniffing their own farts way to long I think.
The way I know you're upset at what I've been saying to you is the way you're now trying to reverse the attack back on me.
Here's the difference, stupid: I haven't spent this entire time refusing to engage in good faith by whining about how I've been treated.
Read: someone criticized your post on specific factual basis and you instantly shut down and started a two day long tantrum by shrieking the names of logical fallacies like they were yugioh trap cards.
That's when people really started making fun of you and you 100% deserved it at that point.
You're going to have to start deleting comments to pretend that's not what happened
I've been "having a tantrum" cause y'all are very very easy to ridicule. So I have to respond to some of your nonsense now and then.
Y'all think you're doing the master dunkers but hundreds of hexbears showing their asses to the world is telling a different story. I don't have to delete comments. Anyone who's not smelling hexbear farts all day can clearly see what's going on and have expressed it clearly.
If you want yo believe I'm in tears over here, go right ahead, baby.
Lol at least make up stories to third parties mate, I was there 😁
More reasonable to say the person showing their ass is the one who cries "strawman" and refuses to elaborate when engaged in good faith while making separate posts crying about this post.
Do you not remember being there for that?
Only about everything else, one-handedly.
Go back to Reddit.
When Reddit sends their smuglords, they're not sending their best.
I like it
I love it
It's funny that
It's ironic that
It's interesting that
Reddit-brained smug enlightened centrist liberals like yourself try to mask your rage with tedious "totally not mad" sentence openers.
Anyone paying attention to what they actually said and not your petulant response will notice how far your characterization is off from the actual source. You're putting on a shameful display.
@db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com hey why not this specific criticism?
Remember when you acted like I was only insulting you and not making valid criticisms? Why don't you reply to the valid criticisms instead of the insults you deserved when it became clear you refused to engage in good faith?
Because you're patronizing. Y'all are patronizing af. So You don't deserve nothing else but the ridicule and sarcasm I've been giving.
Y'all can insult me all you want. Don't worry, I can take it. There's a reason my comments are still open to y'all.
Oh wow you actually responded.
So are you going to apologize for lying, or is it just onto this new latest excuse?
Again, you're being treated the way you deserve to be treated. It's not happening in a vacuum. If you had acted like an adult in the first place no one would be treating you like a child.
I am incapable of lying. So I have nothing to apologize for.
But do keep up the patronizing attitude. It's a winner for sure.
You force people to explain things to you like a child when you lie like this.
Listen dummy: you acted like you were only getting insulted and that there was an absence of genuine criticism. So then I pointed out the criticism you lied and pretended didn't exist.
Then like the child you are, you changed your story and decided all of a sudden you weren't responding because you didn't like being treated like a child. Not even acknowledging your previous lie or the effort you forced others to go through to get past it.
Such is the manner you act like a child.
No I said a hexbear pile-on doesn't count as callout. There were some patronizing arguments and one sealing who couldn't accept that I won't analyze the Spanish revolution on the spot. And awoo to which I replied earnestly. The rest was low quality shit posting
How brave you are to stand up to those assholes trying to make you learn the correct history about the thing you lied about.