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'No Possibility' of Gaza Cease-Fire, Biden Says as 500+ Former Staffers Demand One
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
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Remember this blood is on the hands of anyone who voted for him and would vote for him again.
Genocide is Biden's legacy, hope it was worth saving "democracy".
Your downvotes are a witness against you and do not absolve you of your guilt.
Sorry to disappoint you, but if the president was Trump or any other Republican your government would have been even firmer behind Israel, so it is a choice between a bad and a worse president.
Hell we would probably have deployed troops to Gaza and also to stand by in case of actions from Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, or Syria.
Whataboutism.
Nope. Cold hard truth to your fucking pathetic attempt at putting Netty's bloodthirst on Biden. You are beyond pathetic and frankly beyond stupid.
You're in denial.
So you think Trump would have been a better choice in this situation?
Leninists, don't think. It's anathema to them. That's how we get here. More anti west than anything else. Including socialist. Not that leninists were ever socialists.
Oh, is that what they are?
Why can’t they just stay in hexbear or lemmygrad with the rest of them? Much easier to filter
Well it's an assumption based on the originating TLD. But it's a safe assumption. Leninists/tankies will hypocritically condemn everything about America. And yet defend the exact same actions from other countries. Simply because they are not perceived as being West or western. Or having aided the West. So if you go there looking for logic, you're going to have a bad time. Unless you know that the hypocrisy is the core of their ideology.
No, I'm not a Leninist.
And, no, I don't think it would be any better under Trump but I'm not lying to myself that voting for Biden somehow saved democracy and thus the world. Genocide Joe and Friends has been a spineless shit domestically which has only enabled the Far Right in the US and he just showed where he stands internationally, which is no different from the Far Right. Just want to remind people this is what they voted for when they chose to rabidly support Biden.
Okay??? Nobody here is saying that, so this is pure strawman
Except it’s not… Electing a candidate doesn’t automatically make people responsible for every action that candidate takes once they’re in office. And, once again, it was either Biden or Trump. We picked the best option we had.
If you’re forced to choose between a pile of shit and a pile of shit with febreeze, you’re gonna pick the latter option. Doesn’t mean you’re happy with it, and it doesn’t suddenly make you responsible when the febreeze runs out and the shit starts to stink.
Speaking of shit, stop diving in your ass to find some. You’re spewing enough already.
I don't blame you if you haven't read all the replies I got here because they are all inane, maniacal bloodthirsty American fascist babbling and a complete waste of time but basically everyone has said voting for Biden was necessary to save the country, democracy, stop worse genocide, protect the world, so on and so forth because Trump would destroy everything. Even you are implying it in the next part which I quote. So, no, it's not an imagined strawman and people are actually saying that here.
Voting for and electing a candidate gives them a mandate. That's literally how elections work and their purpose. You are literally responsible for putting that person in power and for what they do with that power because you helped put them there. And anyone voting for Biden again after everything that is happening only solidifies their position as a fascist supporter.
It doesn't seem like you love this country very much. You describe it in such a pessimistic way. Forced to choose between shit you're not happy with that will support or commit genocide no matter what, huh? Does that sound like a functional democracy to you? Fact is that everyone is effected by the President but no one is forced to vote and there are other things people can do to try to build an alternative. You chose to vote to just shovel pleasant smelling shit in your mouth. Why do you think it's worth shoveling shit in your mouth for a system you describe as forcing you to choose between such options?
My bad, I thought you'd appreciate it. You're the one here who loves to have nice smelling shit in their mouth, not me.
You realize we can read the replies here right? You're either lying, and don't realize we can all read. Or you're living in your own little delusional world.
Clearly deluded
“If both options are bad, just don’t vote :D”
What an absolutely braindead take
If that's all you took away, you are the braindead one.
Whatever you say, chief.
I tend not to take the opinions of delusionists seriously
I certainly did not vote for Netanyahu.
But you voted for the guy who has been friends, worked with, and politically supported a Right-wing, ethnonationalist for over 40 years.
That you apparently have the privilege to not be affected by the consequences of a Republican government doesn't invalidate the choices of those who would be, and voted accordingly.
We are all complicit in the same way we are all complicit for the war crimes committed by America in the Middle East: most of us did not have a choice in the matter whatsoever. All we can do is demand them to stop.
I'm not going to judge someone whose choices are "genocide" and "genocide even more, and even more local genocide" and picks the former.
On the contrary, you are displaying the tremendous privilege of living in the imperial core by being able to choose between "'genocide' and 'genocide even more, and even more local genocide'" and justify literally voluntarily voting to choose genocide in order to make yourself feel more comfortable within the imperial core.
True fascism taking power in the US means that I and the people around me will be murdered. But I don't feel the ethical apathy to be able to coldly prefer international genocide of others to keep myself safe at home all the while pretending like I saved the freedom for the entire world as children and whole families are being murdered. Biden is not the progressive savior all of you claimed he was, now at least you admit you chose "genocide"—which I do, and history will, judge harshly.
If you choose to vote for him again after this, you will consciously approve of genocide and be all the more guilty.
Oh well. There is nothing I can do about being born and living here. Since I don't think my fellow Americans' reproductive rights should be taken from them, I'll happily wash my hands in Palestinian blood to do that.
I mean, I don't think that's the actual choice... but if crazy people online say it is, I'll make that choice. I guess the people actually involved in the conflict will just have to be disappointed.
ok
Not voting for him again directly enables a guy that would do so much worse. Your stance lacks any understanding of the limits to our voting system.
How could it be worse than genocide for Palestinians?
Still genocide for Palestine, but also Ukraine and Taiwan, maybe? Also, untold deaths in the US resulting from a further degradation of our rights. Maybe even a full flip to a dictatorship running the world's largest military.
Pretty bad.
Israel could genocide all 2.2 million people living in the Gaza Strip, all 3 million people living in the West Bank, the 1.6 million Palestinian people who live in Israel, the 5.5 million people living in Lebanon and get into a massive conflict in the Middle East where they end up using nuclear weapons.
Oh, and Trump could deport the 225 thousand Palestinian people living in the United States so Israel can genocide them too. Or just do it here in America. The Republicans will almost certainly streamline the death penalty and turn America's mass incarceration system into death camps.
More whataboutism. Trump isn't the President overseeing and providing cover for the genocide right now and Biden hasn't helped in undoing neither the inhumane incarceration system nor the camps ('migrant detention centers') already underway in the US.
But I asked you what could be worse than genocide, and you responded by saying genocide. So, nothing can be worse than genocide? Great, then we are well on our way.
Even if it isn't completed now, Biden has been more than helpful to the far Right colonizers in Israel by enabling this and setting precedent for whenever they wish to continue. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, Israel has validity now to continue genocide. And Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter, voters like you have spoken—support is unconditional, let genocide continue.
Where do you draw your line? How many murdered Palestinian families do you find acceptable?
I have already refuted this argument so I'm just going to copy and paste my earlier response.
The collective punishment we are seeing now is the start of genocide. It is not the full genocide. The difference is millions of people. There is no credibility to an argument that refuses to acknowledge this difference.
No Trump would be worse. He was the one who moved our embassy to Israel. He is the one who is going to destabilize the situation further. Half of the Democratic party wants a ceasefire. Republicans want unconditional support for Israel. Have you ever watched or read fox news? The difference between the parties becomes quite clear, very quickly.
You can't guilt someone into enabling fascists. It doesn't work. Think about all the people the Republicans are going to get killed. It's not equivalent.
Who raised the issue of Trump or the Republican Party when I discussed Biden?
Do you still feel it is a democracy worth defending by approving genocide when the choice is a fascist-enabler and a fascist?
Whataboutism. It's obnoxious when it isn't being used against your opponents, right?
I haven't supported any fascists. The Democratic Party, on the other hand, was the one who guilted you into enabling fascists. Netanyahu has gone mask-off fascist and the Democratic Party guilted you and others into voting for Biden who has been enabling Netanyahu for decades, and continues to do so now. How many people have to be murdered for you to stop supporting Biden? Do you feel any guilt or shame for voting to empower Biden who shipped weapons and sent money to Israel to bomb children and their families?
Multiple people did. It's not whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
This statement is not based in reality. Trump is a fascist and fascist enabler. Biden is not.
It's not a whataboutism if the issues are linked. Which they are.
It's a two party system. Republicans win with low voter turn out. By not voting for Biden you are helping Trump. It's just math. You can't guilt people into supporting a fascist like Trump.
You're delusional if you are not even willing to admit to yourself you voted for a fascist enabler because you wanted to feel safer.
That's a functional democracy worth defending at the cost of supporting genocide to you?
I mean, I do feel safer. You should too. I voted for Biden to stop the fascist take over. I didn't fully realize how much of a danger it was until Jan 6th. But it's become crystal clear to me since.
A democracy that is against genocide is better than a fascist dictatorship that actively pursues genocide at home and abroad. How is that even a question?
I don't feel safer because I've seen the slide towards fascism way before Trump and I know it will continue towards fascism because this slide includes the support and enabling of Democrats. There is no getting off this train by just electing Biden or the next assless Democrat who will just watch as fascists consolidate power.
It's really telling to me you still consider this a democracy that is against genocide. The President is literally funding and arming a genocide that is happening right now. And when the choice is between a President who supports genocide or a President who supports worse genocide, how is that not already a dictatorship? How is that a functioning democracy? That is why it is even a question.
Our decent into fascism started with Regan. Although it can be argued Republicans were trying even earlier with Nixon, they just screwed it up.
Democrats are controlled by neoliberals. But they are the most progress option we have and their party includes most of the progressive politicians that we have. Older politicians are finally aging out. Given enough time Democrats could be become a true progressive party and an effective deterrent against fascism. In the mean time, they are the only alternative.
I want the Democratic party to be more progressive, but I know voting for them is only way to stop a fascist takeover from happening.
Biden supports Israel's right to defend itself, not genocide. Netanyahu and his government chose to commit war crimes, not Biden. Biden has of course gotten this issue wrong. He should be demanding a ceasefire, among other things. Hopefully given enough pressure Biden will change his stance.
What's been weird about this argument is the commitment to equivocating two individuals who could not be more different. Biden is a neoliberal. Trump is a fascist. Everyone can spot the difference. No one can be fooled by such a thinly veiled deception unless they choose to be. Why are you letting yourself be fooled? The people who want our country to descend into fascism don't have our best interests at heart. Why go so willingly to our deaths at the hands of the Republicans? The Palestinians won't be better off with America as a fascist dictatorship. The only way to help the Palestinians, ourselves, or anyone else is with a democracy. Do you just want to guilt trip me or do you think it will somehow get better if we lose our democracy? edit: typo
The problem with this rhetoric is that it just reinforces an echo chamber.
If anything, I've got no reason not to vote for him since I already have blood on my hands. And if I voted for someone else and they also end up not stopping another country from doing disagreeable things, then I get blood on my hands there. There's blood on everything. I don't care anymore. I'll vote for Dem because they cause me the least problems and sometimes even do good.
If you say I've got blood on my hands for that, I guess that's too bad.
All right, but this doesn't make you any different from Trump supporters that Democrats love to accuse of (mostly correctly) being fascists.
The problem with you feeling like this critique makes you defensive and want to just go for the easy option is that there is always another option that you could do but it seems like it's impossible for it to dawn upon you people. It's either genocide or worse genocide. No other choice. But it's also totally a functioning democracy worth defending, unlike those other bloodthirsty authoritarian regimes.
If you can't figure out another option or don't support it or think it's impossible because it's difficult so might as well not do it, then continue doing as you are but, yes, be aware there is blood on your hands and you are acting as a fascist supporter at best.
Just because you're too narrowly focused on 1 issue in 1 place in the world, to see the difference doesn't mean there isn't one.
It's also pretty obvious that voting from your choices doesn't make you a 100% supporter of their beliefs or actions. We aren't electing our clones.
It's the trolly problem and always has been.