this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
174 points (99.4% liked)

traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns

936 readers
8 users here now

Welcome to /c/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns, an anti-capitalist meme community for transgender and gender diverse people.

  1. Please follow the Hexbear Code of Conduct

  2. Selfies are not permitted for the personal safety of users.

  3. No personal identifying information may be posted or commented.

  4. Stay on topic (trans/gender stuff).

  5. Bring a trans friend!

  6. Any image post that gets 200 upvotes with "banner" or "rule 6" in the title becomes the new banner.

  7. Posts about dysphoria/trauma/transphobia should be NSFW tagged for community health purposes.

  8. When made outside of NSFW tagged posts, comments about dysphoria/traumatic/transphobic material should be spoiler tagged.

  9. While this is mostly a meme community, we allow most trans related posts as we grow the trans community on the fediverse.

If you need your neopronouns added to the list, please contact the site admins.

Remember to report rulebreaking posts, don't assume someone else has already done it!

Matrix Group Chat:

Suggested Matrix Client: Cinny

https://matrix.to/#/#tracha:chapo.chat

WEBRINGS:

Transmasculine Pride Ring flag-trans-pride

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago (14 children)

Hey trans comrades, I got a question as a CIS. I work with teenagers and there's a decent amount of them that are trans or simply non conforming to CIS stereotypical looks. I substitute teach, so I usually don't know the names of students.

I've made a mistake before of needing to get a kid's attention and saying "excuse me young man/young lady" or "excuse me miss" or something like that. And they turn around and I've misgendered them. What's a gender neutral way to get the attention of someone that I can start using instead of gendered words?

[–] Cromalin@hexbear.net 33 points 2 years ago (2 children)

if you type cis in all caps it makes it sound like you're referring to the group lead by the treacherous count dooku and not people who feel comfortable as their agab

also repeating what others say. try describing clothing, location, some physical attributes

[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sorry my brain autocorrects to all caps cis because I do, in fact, type often about the Confederacy of Independent Systems.

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 32 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"hey kid" in your oldest grandpa voice

[–] SerLava@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The only proper way to address children

[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

How do you do fellow school children?

[–] ScrewdriverFactoryFactoryProvider@hexbear.net 28 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

Some more terminology nitpicking and then I promise I have something more substantive. Everyone’s pointed out that “CIS” should be lowercase and isn’t an acronym. I personally just took it as emphasis. But more importantly, it’s an adjective, not a noun. You’re not a cis. You are cis. It matters because referring to someone as a trans is generally seen as offensive. Either they’re trans or they’re a trans person.

And the language you’re looking for when talking about whether someone is “non conforming to CIS stereotypical looks” is that they’re “gender non-conforming”, which isn’t really about someone’s gender identity, but about their gender presentation. So cis people can be gender nonconforming and trans people can present as gender conforming. In fact, most trans people I know present pretty in line with a binary gender. Although, it’s been my experience that this is less common with teens in general, both cis and trans, and I know trans self-identification is higher among teens.

So I think in addition to all this, just minimizing gendered language with your students in general will be helpful. From experience, it involves a lot of thinking about the intention of what you’re saying and replacing the shorthand with the intention. So instead of “excuse me, miss”, you can say, “excuse me, I need some help” or “excuse me, this is silent time”. If someone isn’t responding, “can you get her attention?” could be replaced with “a tap on the shoulder would be appreciated”. It can be hard and not always immediately doable, but the habit is more important than any individual instance.

There’s also the issue of what to do when you do misgender someone. It’s common for people to panic and sputter and just generally not know what to do, which can be worse than the misgendering itself. Point of reference, it’s like forgetting someone’s name. It’s rude, but you apologize and move on. That’s all.

[–] blakeus12@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago

cis: not trans

CIS: THE CONFEDERACY OF INDEPENDENT SYSTEMS

[–] grendahlgrendahlgen@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Nitpick to your nitpick: cis is an adjective (descriptor), not a verb (action).

Fixed. Thanks, my brain broke for a sec blob-no-thoughts

[–] Hatandwatch@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Cis you? I don't even know you!

“I swear to god I will cis you” is a terrifying threat no matter the context

[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

If I do misgender or deadname someone I'm usually chill about correcting myself and in my experience students were chill about correcting me.

Thank you for the in depth comment, I really don't know why I put cis in all caps. I know it's from a prefix. But yeah in general I'll work on de-gendering my language.

[–] Omniraptor@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Imo this sounds really awkward and verbose having to use the passive voice all the time etc. My ideal egalitarian system is just speaking normally but using they for everyone except when corrected, and then respecting people's preference.

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

What about “excuse me, you in the red hoodie there”? Something describing clothing, hair color, etc?

[–] tamagotchicowboy@hexbear.net 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

When I substitute taught I went off what said student was wearing 'ex you in the yellow shirt' assuming there's no uniform, if there was then I would tap their desk or just walk up to them and get attention. Usually direct is best anyway. I hated when the roster would be outdated so you could end up accidentally deadnaming students and get everyone off to a bad start, going by lastname helped but it might set a weird tone.

[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago

I'm looking forward to being a full teacher because once I learn students names this won't be a problem.

[–] FanonFan@hexbear.net 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Go with "champ", "kiddo", "bucko" if you want them to be upset for a different reason

[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"Sport" is non gendered if a say it with a "shhh" emphasis, right?

[–] FanonFan@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago
[–] Orannis62@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

First off, fyi, cis isn't an acronym.

This can honestly be kinda hard because there aren't a lot of nongendered terms for this, and those that do exist would definitely feel othering in this context (in the same way that being the only person asked your pronouns in like a larger introductory context is othering). My thought would be to just use some (neutral! Be careful about that part!) physical descriptions, like "excuse me, student with the black hair". Otherwise, maybe you can make a loud noise (e.g. drop a textbook on your desk) and then get that person's attention specifically when they (and others) look? Otherwise physically go over and tap their shoulder.

None of those solutions are perfect and all of them are obviously contextual, but it's what I got

[–] lilypad@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago

Only one way to address unknown children

kai-my-child

[–] radiofreeval@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago

Have a bag of rocks with you at all times and throw them at whoever you wish to address.

[–] GreenTeaRedFlag@hexbear.net 12 points 2 years ago

"cis" should be lower case. it's not an acronym, it's a latin prefix meaning "on the same side." Anyway, just say "excuse me." It's not like the direct address makes it more clear, given it isn't their name.

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Well, you could use second person pronouns (eg. you/your) or use a noun like "youth"...

Idk, I'm out of ideas...

[–] zifnab25@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

For younger people, I've made extensive use of "kiddo" and "champ". But I do wish we had a proper gender neutral pronoun in English, if for no other reason than I'm constantly fucking up and misgendering people in my online D&D server, and its getting very embarrassing.

Hmm, I never thought of kid and champ...

[–] bubbalu@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago

I'm a teach and struggle with this a lot because I grew up in the midwest and comical overpoliteness is really natural for me. Recently, I've found my students (early elementary) are most responsive to 'ayo'. Very little kids also find it cool and mysterious if you call them 'little one'.

With older students, if you are able to naturally and confidently say 'student' the awkwardness is manageable. Practicing to make it automatic is probably your best option. Esp. with subbing, the stakes if you flub bad are one bad day or just one bad period if you are not self-contained. Also if you are only a little uncomfortable, I recommend wearing a trans pride pin.

[–] Nagarjuna@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I just call them all "bro" and use inflection to let them know if they're fucking up.

[–] Catradora_Stalinism@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago

id rather not be called 'bro'

[–] ZapataCadabra@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

I don't know about bro, but "dude" is gender neutral in my neck of the woods.