Trying to focus on the slaughter of regular Israelis and whether it's good or evil to attack civilians is just such a ridiculous approach to me. The question has no meaning in this context. If you don't want kernels to pop take the pot off of the flame, if you refuse to do that then shut the fuck up about it.

Like obviously it sucks that everyday people were intentionally killed but the blame is just being put on the entirely wrong place, it's just individualist moralism that works to strip the event of any context. It feels like it's a rhetorical funnel whose function is to push those who engage in this moralizing to the next logical point in the talking-point journey: whether Israel has a right to defend itself.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

I see this from the other side, that wildly reductive takes are being intentionally utilized to dismiss flat out murder. Essentially, the message comes across as "senseless violence is only bad when it happens to me; it's justified when I do it".

That said, the Palestinian situation is beyond fucked. Israel is and has been committing mass violence against millions of people on an enormous scale for decades, and it isn't shocking that that could radicalize people. The problem is that that's exactly what Nettanyahu and his cabinet of authoritarian fuckheads want, because it gives them the narrative they need to have their genocide. There's a reason Nettanyahu was urging people to find HAMAS (spoiler alert: it's not that he supports Palestinian freedom). And before I get the inevitable "So what's your solution, huh?" Well, maybe a first step could be let's all agree that killing non-combatants is fucking wrong no matter who's doing it. I know I'm going to get a wise-ass remark about how I just don't understand, it's okay when MY side murders non-combatants, what else should we be expected to do? My brother in Buddha, I don't think deleting unarmed civilians is going to cause the collapse of the Israeli government OR HAMAS. You could always take a page from the early Russian revolution and start targeting the people actually responsible, maybe.

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

Always with the victim blaming bullshit from you libs isn't it. The ideal world for you is when violence is rewarded with passivism from the victim rather than actual defense

[–] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

You could always take a page from the early Russian revolution and start targeting the people actually responsible, maybe.

You're not fooling anyone if this was 1917 you'd be crowing loudly about the slaughtered Romanov children

[–] SoyViking@hexbear.net 21 points 2 years ago

If you decide to go to someone else's country to take their land you are an active participant in colonial violence not a civilian, no matter whether you wear a uniform or not.

I have sympathy for the children and those descendants of settlers who were born in Palestine but the only way they can achieve security is through a just peace. As long as the zionist entity refuses such a peace, they are endangering their own population by exposing them to the justified resistance of Palestinians.

Those who care about the innocent dead should direct their anger at the zionist entity. All violence in Palestine springs from the occupation and colonisation. Those who decide to maintain the occupation ultimately are responsible for all evils that follows.

[–] emizeko@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago

another perspective

We know, as our readers know, that the people are the resistance and vice versa: it is the relationship between the sword and shield, the heart and arm. Every Palestinian struggles under the occupation. As this historic battle rages on, we know that the tactics of the occupation will evolve. They will continue to target homes regardless of the presence of resistance activity in an attempt to demoralize the Palestinian people, draw blood, and accelerate their genocide.

As this happens, it is our obligation to our principles that dictates we must not fall into the trap of distinguishing between armed resistance fighters and non-combatants, as every Palestinian has a role in the current state of affairs. Every martyr must be mourned, and every zionist strike must be seen for the crime that it is. We will not allow the occupier or Western media to dehumanize us by creating distinctions between a colonized people whose remained existence on their lands is "militant."

Every Palestinian is a civilian even if they hold arms. A settler is an aggressor, a soldier, and an occupier even if they are lounging on our occupied beaches. As the IOF calls up thousands of reserves, it is clear that all settlers are soldiers. There exists a colonizer and the colonized, an oppressed and the oppressor. The people cannot be dissociated from resistance, because we are in a constant state of resistance.

Certainly, an explosive response is coming.

This struggle has been imposed on us. To resist is to survive, and to resist is a right.

from https://t.me/PalestineResist/13782?single

[–] Sephitard9001@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

SETTLERS ARE NOT CIVILIANS. SETTLERS ARE NOT CIVILIANS. SETTLERS ARE NOT CIVILIANS. SETTLERS ARE NOT CIVILIANS

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago (3 children)

So, can I assume you're in favor of ethnic cleansing Russian settlers from east Ukraine and Crimea?

[–] Sephitard9001@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

How does that make sense? Russians in East Ukraine were not stealing land from Ukrainians. They wanted to secede before and after Euromaidan and Ukrainian nazis were the ones attempting to steal their land. They literally ASKED Russia for security, and the bloodless Russian invasion of Crimea following an increase of support for secession corroborates this.

How do you have it so backward as to compare Ukraine to Palestine and Ukrainian civilians under siege to Israeli settlers??

[–] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

You know east Ukraine was ethnically russian and added on to the Ukraine SSR by the soviet union right?

[–] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

Ukraine was the one that was doing ethnic cleansing in eastern Ukraine. And yes we were against that.

[–] privatized_sun@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

killing non-combatants is fucking wrong no matter who's doing it

(sent from my African child slave iphone)

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Your smug reply brought to you by AWS data centers chugging water like a hole in the earth.

[–] star_wraith@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The reason you can't boil this down to "both sides" is because there is one party (Israel) who can end all the suffering in Gaza and the West Bank tomorrow. The other party (Palestinians) has ZERO ability to end the suffering. If they play nice with Israel, that only ensures they get an easy, slow ethnic cleansing as opposed to a more rapid one. This is what is happening in the West Bank right now if you think I'm exaggerating. PA tries to work with Israel and every day, Israel just turns the screws on them harder with more and more settlements and more humiliations heaped on them. Israel has an EASY option to end it which requires no violence at all (ending the occupation), while the other side has no other option but violence. And the way things are structured, there is no way they can try and liberate themselves without violence that is likely to get non-combatants involved. But the blame lies squarely on the party that has the non-violent options and chooses not to use them.

All decolonization involves incredible violence. Because colonization itself involves orders of magnitude more violence. Don't like it, don't colonize.