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this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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chapotraphouse
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I don’t understand the ultimate goal here. What is the point of this meme that has been flooding lemmy lately? Liberals follow major media outlets. Major media outlets like simple stories of good and bad. So they conveniently ignore things that don’t fit into that narrative…but the same is true of every single world event.
What is the ultimate point of this? It’s obviously not to point out what I just stated. There is a goal here and it seems…like supporting Russia, a global superpower and aggressor, in a war against—what is being painted here as just a bunch of nazis. The unspoken message here is, “you don’t want to support a bunch of nazis. Go russia.”
Am I…missing something?
A big part of why I ended up hear in hexbear is because it's one of the only places where everybody doesn't lie about your beliefs to just off handedly dismiss your concerns.
It's really interesting how everybody actually in this sub talks about how it's bad Russia invaded and they're deffinitly aggressors and denounce them, we just think nazis are bad.
At a certain point after seeing dozens of people say "you said nazis are bad therefore you support russia" you kind of stop giving a shit what the people actively lying abaout you are saying.
We're sating we don't support a bunchbof nazis.
Dumbshit libs then have to insist that it's because we're just a bunch of Russian nationalists, because otherwise they might have to wrestle with the thought that they're frothing mad at people for saying nazis are bad.
But this is kind of my point. The viewpoint depicted in this meme and the bunches of others like it I’ve seen lately is just propaganda going the other way.
It’s a complete oversimplification—and this is EXACTLY what everyone is saying liberals are guilty of. And while it’s true of liberals because it’s a simple narrative that is easy to paint sides into (and American politics is nothing if not ideas painted two colors for ease of identity), it’s also very true of what’s happening here.
People who paint themselves as communist are saying “Ukraine = Nazis,” and just because Russia has a communist history, see “Russia=communist.”
It’s the same sickness that’s completely rotten in the US: a massive oversimplification for ease of allegiance to your stated party/ideals. This one is just painted communist and therefore is getting praised around here.
People are calling Ukraine a nazi state because it is full of nazi apologists, is full of nazi symbolism, their national heroes are nazis, their military is full of nazis, they parade genocidal SS members in foreign governments, and so on. Plenty of people here speak on the tragedy that Ukrainians are experiencing but that doesn't mean you ignore the nazis, who at a minimum served as the tail 'wagging the dog' of the Ukrainian state escalating violence in the conflict with the DPR and LPR, cascading into the war.
No one is saying Russia = communist. By that logic, Ukrainian history also would imply it as being communist, they have just as much a right to that legacy as Russia. Talking for myself, I am mostly horrified at the complete acceptance and triumphalism that nazis have received in the west in the past couple of years. I imagine most users of this site feel the same way. I repeatedly talk with people IRL about this conflict that goes into history and context for why Russia is not insane nor evil for this war, despite it still being a tragedy, and I get a lot of people who call me a putinbot, tankie, or some equivalent thought terminating cliche.
I think a lot of people have chosen a side because we have not been meaningfully allowed a voice to advocate for peaceful diplomatic measures. Calls for peace and diplomacy are met with accusations of russian propaganda. Nazi membership is merely russian propaganda now. So, for many, these are the sides and you have to choose one or the other and some US leftists are choosing revolutionary defeatism, sometimes it has a more vulgar pro-russia/anti-nazi stance but it's wayy better than the vulgar pro-nazi stance lmao.
The Waffen-SS guy is a Ukrainian-Canadian. He was ratlined to Canada after WW2 (along with a lot of other Ukrainian Nazis). There are a huge number of monuments to Nazi collaborators in Canada. Modern Ukraine's only involvement with this specific Nazi is Zelensky applauding for him and Canada bringing him on to honor Ukraine.
Thanks for saying this. WW2 Ukraine did more to fight Fascism than any nation other than Russia. Ukrainians who fought against Fascism outnumber the Nazi collaborators by over 10 to 1. Ukraine did more to defeat the Nazis than all the western allies combined. It's shameful how modern Ukraine and the entire west idolize the collaborators and spit in the face of those who fought against the Nazis.
Not to mention, the far right nazi affiliated parties have never gotten more than 3% of the vote.
Neo nazis and white supremacists and far right people are everywhere. To paint this entire conflict as “denazification” is literally just gobbling up party propaganda for the sake of making life more cut-and-dry for these peoples chosen political beliefs…which is exactly what they’re saying liberals are doing. Which—to be entirely fair—is true of liberals. But it’s also entirely true of these communists. Stupid team sports politics is stupid team sports politics.
if nazis are no problem in ukraine, how did they continure the civil war after the peace agreements? why did they ban all opposition parties? why make speaking russian illegal? why does every fucking photo of the AFU have a Nazi symbol in it? if nazis only have 3% of the vote, how do they have 15% of the seats in parliament? please do some basic research, i found all of this with a google search, its not even hidden very well.
https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/e/7/233896.pdf
https://press.un.org/en/2022/ga12483.doc.htm
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc14823.doc.htm
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf
https://www.state.gov/reports/2018-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/ukraine/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/white-supremacists-other-extremists-respond-russian-invasion-ukraine
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality-of-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-is-far-from-kremlin-propaganda/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/
https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/azov-battalion
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-000653_EN.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY
and for the record, if there was someone invading america to kill our nazis, i would support them also.
If Nazis hold top positions in the military and local governments and the national government continues to support and empower them, does it really matter if Nazi parties don't win elections? They get what they want anyways.