this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
267 points (94.6% liked)
World News
32285 readers
1 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
But remember, it's the rest of the world that's warmongering! Also up is down!
Come on, not even zelensky had any hope they would accept this peace plan. They're basically asking Russia to stop the war and give back all the territory they occupied. The Ukrainian counter offensive stopped at a brick wall, the Russians have no reason at all to do this.
Pretty crumbly and porous brick wall, there. And they apparently neglected to build it around Sevastopol.
War is normally a slow process. In historical terms Ukraine is making good progress.. it is mostly fiction where wars are one in a couple days.
Except Israel.
There have been a lot of exceptions. However the majority of wars are longer as if you don't think you can win surrender terms are generally better than death.
Sure, if you fight in the middle of the desert with little cover and no mud, progress is fast once you cut through the defensive lines. Vs fighting in mud and forests.
Western people are funny to say the least, i dont know why, if it has something to do if the fact u guys always lived in such a privileged position that u can live in a fantasy world.
Try to be pragmatic. I never said it had to be quick, I never said this is unwinnable right now, I just said that makes no sense for the Russians to accept this terms right now, and Ukrainians are not stupid, they know this. Or were u expecting putin to wake up this morning feeling bad for what he have done and just move his troops out of Ukraine?
They didn’t have any hope because Putin is a warmonger. Any “peace plan” that Russia would find acceptable would just delay the inevitable and give Russia time to build back up, they’ve already shown their cards. Russia needs to give up on its territorial aspirations and give back what it’s stolen. Russia could’ve held onto Crimea even had it just not invaded Ukraine, the rest of the world had basically turned a blind eye to it (it wasn’t right, but that was the reality), instead they get to watch their military turn to dust, just like Putin will be doing within a decade.
So you're saying Crimea is not part of Ukraine?
I’m not saying that all, but facts on the ground were that, 2014–2022, Russia had control of Crimea and nobody was going to do anything about that for fear of getting into conflict with Russia. That Crimea even “passed” into Russian hands without much of a fight from the international community is probably what emboldened Putin to go after the rest of Ukraine. What I’m saying is that had he stuck to just that sort of low-level “piecemeal” approach to carving out sections of Ukraine, like what was do e with Crimea, he wouldn’t have gotten nearly the amount of international backlash that he got.
Is Crimea part of Ukraine? Yes, but when it comes to international borders, facts on the ground are what matter in the long-run. Had Putin bided his time, eventually it would’ve just been accepted as fact. Nobody else would’ve ever cared enough to start a war over it. With Putin going for all-out-war though, he’s revealed Russia’s military weakness and facts on the ground have become mutable again, giving us the chance that we’ll hopefully see Crimea come back into Ukraine.
I'm not judging who is or who isn't a warmonger or whatever, let's just be pragmatic, it makes no sense at all for Russia to accept those terms. Were u expecting the Russian Govt. to suddenly wake up one morning feeling bad for what they've done and just move the troops out of Ukraine, including Crimea who's under Russian control for over a decade now, and say "sorry, my bad"? This 10 point plan they "proposed" was only made so western media can say they're trying to stop the war, which they aren't. And again, I'm not saying they have to stop the war, I'm just analyzing things objectively.
I'm saying Putin can stop this war right now by going home. This is all Putins' fault supported by oligarchs. It makes complete sense for putin to accept these terms, because he will eventually be forced to.
What makes you believe we will eventually be forced? Do you still think our sanctions will make Russia collapse?
When the bombs are on his doorstep caused by his own ignorance.
So you're cheering for WW3?
No. That was not the question
There are no oligarchs in Russia.
Words have meanings. An oligarch is someone who has political power through wealth.
Russia is an autocracy, and Putin allows people to be rich, so long as they don't try to translate that into political power.
America has oligarchs, Russia just has rich people that contribute to an autocracy.
... I'm honestly not sure which is more evil as a political system.
I would say what is in the U.S. because there are more thorns that have to be removed from the rose.
The counteroffensive is moving forward slowly because the Russians put a ton of mines and trenches in the way. Plus they committed their best troops to stopping it. Still Ukraine is slowly moving forward in the south.
I wouldn't want to be there right now on either side. But basically the Ukrainians are winning because their artillery is better. Once Ukraine moves their artillery within range of the highway along the Sea of Azov, the troops protecting Crimea will have their supplies threatened. This is the general plan and they're getting closer.
I never said this in unwinnable, but don't make any sense to propose a peace plan to Russia right now demanding them to return all the land they occupied. Ukrainians are not dumb, they know this, this peace "proposal" is just a piece of propaganda to western media to say they are trying to start peace talks with Russia or some shit. The Russian ministry answered this out of anger but he's not wrong, the Ukraine is only getting their territory back if they can put a huge pressure on Russians, possibly only if they can manage to make Russia fear to be attacked on their own territory. And even if this happens we have to trust Russians won't nuke Ukraine to protect their own territory.
holy shit stop invading and leave? OUTRAGEOUS! the nerve of zelensky to ask for what is Ukraine's! I think you should go join the trenches to show how mad you are!
No, see when he says "a fairer distribution of global benefits" that needs to start with distributing ukrainian benefits to russian oligarchs obviously!
Zelensky knowing that there wasn't a hope in hell of Russians accepting this is false? You know it, I know it, we all know it. It's just politics. Of course Zelensky has to offer something, even if he knows they won't bite.
The Russians have to claw something out of this debacle to sue for peace. And I hope the Ukrainians give them nothing, and take back the Crimea while they're at it.
Bad bot.
bots are at least logical
I mean, if Putin doesn't want to die, he can always gobtje fuck home. I mean he can still suck a bag of dicks and then choke on them.
Yes.