this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2023
1599 points (100.0% liked)
196
18204 readers
1719 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
Other rules
Behavior rules:
- No bigotry (transphobia, racism, etc…)
- No genocide denial
- No support for authoritarian behaviour (incl. Tankies)
- No namecalling
- Accounts from lemmygrad.ml, threads.net, or hexbear.net are held to higher standards
- Other things seen as cleary bad
Posting rules:
- No AI generated content (DALL-E etc…)
- No advertisements
- No gore / violence
- Mutual aid posts are not allowed
NSFW: NSFW content is permitted but it must be tagged and have content warnings. Anything that doesn't adhere to this will be removed. Content warnings should be added like: [penis], [explicit description of sex]. Non-sexualized breasts of any gender are not considered inappropriate and therefore do not need to be blurred/tagged.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact us on our matrix channel or email.
Other 196's:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That's not something in your control. What is in your control is whether you add to it, including by spreading bad vibes by being chronically miserable. Don't be a slave to your past.
If everyone, ever, looks like a narcissist to you then one of two things are true: a) You're one yourself and are literally begging for that behaviour to be kept in check, or, b) you're jaded beyond measure. Is there not a single person that doesn't give you the creeps? You included, btw.
It isn't, but yes it is written correctly. But the Epictetus translation I paraphrased it from is better, I agree:
You don't deserve the reaction you're trying to coax out of me. You're trying to elicit it so that you can be reinforced in your beliefs, so that you can continue to say "see, it's true, everybody hates me, everyone is an enemy". But no amount of flailing will make me hate you. Best I can do is tickle you into submission, sorry.
And, yes, my intent here is to dominate and my methods are manipulative. What's the motive, though?
You do not know anyone’s nature but your own. You cannot assume anyone’s behavior except your own. By definition, you are entirely wrong, because your entire conception is based upon assumptions about people you’ve never met and likely never will. You are definitively the narcissist in this thread, making everything about you. You need to pull the tapeworm out of your ass.
Humanity’s common nature, beyond the last few hundred years, is actually one of mutual aid and cooperation. I’d encourage you to look into the various Peoples Histories of the various parts of the world. It is increasingly clear the more data is gathered that the current system of elevating greed, avarice, selfishness etc, is a historical outlier on a history that stretches back hundreds of thousands of years of people collectively cooperating.
Now you’re asserting more and more to me. I’ve read plenty of books, we could go through some we’ve read if you really want to. Have you read Graeber and Wengrow’s “Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity”? How about Paulo Freire’s “Pedagogy of the Oppressed”? They’re pretty popular books, I wouldn’t be surprised if you have, but if not I’d recommend them. Do you have any recommendations for me?
Which moral philosophy do you subscribe to?
I know my nature thank you very much. And what do you mean with "correction"? Do you want me to be an asshole? You also don't need to worry about me: I'm peaceful, not harmless. In fact, you can't really be peaceful if you're harmless, in that we agree I think.
That's not a narcissistic motive. Narcissists feel shame when they, inadvertently, do something nice same as others feel shame when they inadvertently hurt. Their moral instincts are flipped and their function in society is to keep the rest on our toes. They're the empty space directly around the mark so the mark is easier to see. Their purpose in life is to be a warning example. In that way they serve good.
Playing over fears is a thing every human is prone to, no matter the neurological makeup. It's either a function of pride, to which the antidote is humility, or urgency/stress, to which the antidote is taking your time, avoiding snap judgements... or it's foolhardiness. Courage, OTOH, is not playing over but actually overcoming fear, usually out of wisdom, the queen of the virtues, able to bring opposing instincts into mutually agreeable concord. That's adaptation without the "mal-" in front.
And I don't care about whatever shame the assholes put into you. Keep it to yourself, you deserve kindness regardless. The question is whether you're willing to look beyond it and become receptive to kindness, or whether you carry it around as a shield because giving it up would invoke the ire of people you are, as I gather, no longer under the direct thumb of.
Oh this is very interesting. I meant you do not need worry about my safety. As you seemed to be keen on "curing" me of my "naive" ways, convincing you of yours, seeing the whole world as nothing but enmity. It didn't even occur to me that it could be read the other way around. How did you come to that interpretation?
Someone who is harmless has no way to defend themselves. They will be afraid little tiny chihuahuas throwing their ire at anyone that they ever meet, considering all to be more powerful than them, that ire will be directed inside into self-hatred or outside into anger, but it's still the same helplessness.
If you are not harmless, however, you can find safety, even in dicey situations, in your capacity to get out of them on your own terms. It's the martial artists who is not impressed by chest thumping, and see no need to engage in that practice: If a punch flies their way they're going to react, they can trust the back of their mind to deal with it. Any worry there might be does not need to cross the threshold of consciousness because they have achieved unconscious competence. That enables peacefulness even in a biker bar.
Are humans fake to their pets, to their children? To their frail elders?
How much do you yourself enforce that brand?
...never mind you just answered that.
Now why would I do that. Humanity aside that's strategically unsound: Fearful people are not at the full extent of their abilities. And if we are are to, what, hunt mammoths or some shit I'd rather have you at your best.
I assert that your neurosis is less than you, that it diminishes you. Anyone trying to get you out of there does not do it to further their control over you -- on the contrary, they want to see you fly and soar (or at the very least not get on their nerves). Those narcissists you speak of would rather reinforce it, because it is a leash they can lead you by. How do you clearly distinguish between those ends people aim for? "Everyone is out to get me" is not an answer to that question, it's a cop-out, it's avoidance.
Or, let me put this differently: If there was a single decent human being among the billions we are, and you might just by chance stumble across them one day... would you be able to tell that they're the exception? Can you develop that skill? Is that a hypothetical you're comfortable contemplating?
Was that a Freudian slip?
Just for the record, no, I do not think of myself as inferior. Or superior. I generally don't tend to think it those categories and definitely not as a generality. If there's a shoemaker, sure, I'll recognise their authority when it comes to the question of shoes.
Why would I attack you? As I said in the beginning: No amount of flailing will make me hate you. Any aggression will have to be started from your side.
If you do not consider that possible, I suggest you suspend disbelief. Try it out for yourself.
As I already linked Epictetus: