this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
122 points (99.2% liked)

chapotraphouse

13473 readers
1 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank

Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here

Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] Frank@hexbear.net 38 points 2 years ago (9 children)

I am legitimately kind of confused as what's going on with TTRPGs and goblins et al. Back in teh day goblins were little green dudes who did horrible things because Gygax was kind of a shithead and adopted the race-essentialism of Tolkien's Orcs without Tolkien's "These guys are literally fake humans/elves created by the god of evil as weapons. Actual humans, including specifically black or dark skinned humans, have conscience and free will and can do good things or bad things according to their beliefs". Like racism in Tolkien, big topic, very popular, many posts, but Tolkien's orcs were militant, organized, industrial, arguably the most industrialized society in Middle Earth, and in so far as they could be said to represent anything it's much easier to make a case that Tolkien's orcs in LOTR are a representation of the industrialization of warfare than they are a British Imperialist racial caricature.

Then Gygax and later creators took orcs from "We have a huge, organized military capable of extended field operations away from our power base. We have the necessary industrial and agricultural base to produce food, weapons, armor, goods, and everything else needed to sustain that army in the field." to pretty much just racist caricatures of "primitive" black people or "primitive" indigenous people, leaning heavily on the "Noble Savage" trope. Orcs became gigantic, absurdly muscular brutes prone to grunting, hitting things with clubs, being angry, and not wearing clothes (Tolkien orcs top out at five feet, aren't particularly strong despite having notable endurance, and do wear clothes). Unlike the tall, robust, blond humans they don't seem to have any industry or agriculture.

Well, obviously that's all bullshit, and starting with Millenials it started being rejected and replaced with new stuff. But the new stuff, as near as I can tell, is just making everyone ridiculously hot, but they're green and have tusks. I'm not clear exactly what narrative role is served by hot green people, some tall and ripped, some very short and curvy, but I suspect it is not of god nor sanctioned by the volcel-judge volcel police volcel-judge

[โ€“] muddi@hexbear.net 25 points 2 years ago

Was the whole fantasy race thing ever gonna turn out good? They're effectively walking metaphors for real world races or other slices of humanity, exaggerated for physical and behavioral traits for this reason.

It's not like people stereotype based on the art and philosophy of a people

[โ€“] Zuzak@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago

But the new stuff, as near as I can tell, is just making everyone ridiculously hot

To quote The Good Place, why wouldn't you imagine everyone as ridiculously hot? You can do it for free.

[โ€“] VOLCEL_POLICE@hexbear.net 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The VOLCEL POLICE are on the scene! PLEASE KEEP YOUR VITAL ESSENCES TO YOURSELVES AT ALL TIMES.

ู†ุญู† ุดุฑุทุฉ VolCel.ุจู†ุงุกุง ุนู„ู‰ ุชุนู„ูŠู…ุงุช ุงู„ู‡ูŠุฆุฉ ู„ุชุฑูˆูŠุฌ ู„ุฃู„ุนุงุจ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ูˆ ุงู„ู†ู‡ูŠ ุนู† ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ู†ุฑุฌูˆุง ุงู„ุฅุจุชุนุงุฏ ุนู† ุฃูŠ ุฃููƒุงุฑ ุฌู†ุณูŠุฉ ูˆ ุงู„ุญูุงุธ ุนู„ู‰ ุญูŠูˆุงู†ุงุชูƒู… ุงู„ู…ู†ูˆูŠู‘ูŽุฉ ุญุชู‰ ูŠูˆู… ุงู„ุญุณุงุจ. ุงุชู‚ูˆุง ุงู„ู„ู‡ุŒ ุฅู†ูƒ ู„ุง ุชุฑุงู‡ ู„ูƒู†ู‡ ูŠุฑุงูƒ.

volcel-police

[โ€“] Frank@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago

Oh shit internal affairs!

You'll never take me alive!

marx-guns-blazing

[โ€“] Leon_Grotsky@hexbear.net 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This is why Orks will always be superior to Orcs

[โ€“] Frank@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago (1 children)

"Extremely violent fungus with british soccer hooligan tendencies" was one of GW's better ideas.

[โ€“] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Orks are canon realitywarpers when they believe hard enough. My headcannon is that the whole WH40K universe is the collective unconscious will of Orkdom for infinite paradise of combat.

[โ€“] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That fact about orks was always my favorite. Want your car to go faster? Paint it red. Because red cars go faster. And then... it works.

[โ€“] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Orks welding exploded bits together and declaring "it woks on me spaship!" with this one weird trick. Adeptus Mechanicus hate them!

[โ€“] Frank@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago

I think this has gotten heavily exaggerated by the community over the years. The way I remember it back in the day was less 'There's nothing inside this tellyporta it just works on magic" and more "Somehow and ork can fire this shoota for hours, but when a Tech Priest tries to fire it they have to clear jams every twenty or thirty rounds". Like the WAAAAGH field would nudge bitz just enough to keep them working, it'd keep circuits from frying, It'd nudge the Mechboyz to work a little harder on the Red ones. Magic, but not as overt as when people say Ork tech is just a bunch of junk cobbled together with no worky bitz inside. Iirc the old lore had the Old Ones encoding huge amounts of technical information in the Ork genetic material, such that when Mechboyz started thinking real hard about how to solve a problem they'd just know how the principles behind an engine or a force field or whatever, and be able to apply that programmed-in knowledge to kludge something together with the materials available to them. Feral Orks can go from the stone age to space travel in a few decades because all the knowledge needed to wage the war in heaven was built in to them when they were designed.

[โ€“] Harrison@ttrpg.network 10 points 2 years ago

Gygax orcs absolutely did have the "these guys were created by evil gods as weapons" thing going on. Orcs and goblins explicitly did not have free will until well after Gygax lost creative control over D&D

[โ€“] ChaosMaterialist@hexbear.net 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I am legitimately kind of confused as what's going on with TTRPGs and goblins et al.

I'm not clear exactly what narrative role is served by hot green people, some tall and ripped, some very short and curvy, but I suspect it is not of god nor sanctioned by the volcel-judge volcel police volcel-judge

It most certainly is not Volcel approved! You would be in terrible peril!

[โ€“] VOLCEL_POLICE@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

The VOLCEL POLICE are on the scene! PLEASE KEEP YOUR VITAL ESSENCES TO YOURSELVES AT ALL TIMES.

ู†ุญู† ุดุฑุทุฉ VolCel.ุจู†ุงุกุง ุนู„ู‰ ุชุนู„ูŠู…ุงุช ุงู„ู‡ูŠุฆุฉ ู„ุชุฑูˆูŠุฌ ู„ุฃู„ุนุงุจ ุงู„ููŠุฏูŠูˆ ูˆ ุงู„ู†ู‡ูŠ ุนู† ุงู„ุฌู†ุณ ู†ุฑุฌูˆุง ุงู„ุฅุจุชุนุงุฏ ุนู† ุฃูŠ ุฃููƒุงุฑ ุฌู†ุณูŠุฉ ูˆ ุงู„ุญูุงุธ ุนู„ู‰ ุญูŠูˆุงู†ุงุชูƒู… ุงู„ู…ู†ูˆูŠู‘ูŽุฉ ุญุชู‰ ูŠูˆู… ุงู„ุญุณุงุจ. ุงุชู‚ูˆุง ุงู„ู„ู‡ุŒ ุฅู†ูƒ ู„ุง ุชุฑุงู‡ ู„ูƒู†ู‡ ูŠุฑุงูƒ.

volcel-police

Itโ€™s probably just an offshoot of furry culture, I wouldnโ€™t overthink it too much. People like characters that theyโ€™re attracted to

[โ€“] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

My theory is everyone was already secretly horny for monsters, but didn't have a chance to go stir-crazy enough to start exploring that until the COVID lockdowns. Because there has definitely been an uptick in this stuff.

[โ€“] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Tolkien orcs top out at five feet

Wait what

[โ€“] axont@hexbear.net 5 points 2 years ago

Well that's honestly unclear. Orcs and goblins are presented as the same thing within LOTR. But Uruk-hai are a specialized breed of orcs who are more person sized. I don't think I remember their height being specified though, other than they're taller than normal orcs