this post was submitted on 18 Apr 2026
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Programming
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javascript exists; his point is invalid
I also agree that Javascript is worse. C++ has two excuses for being bad:
Javascript has neither of those two excuses. People only use it today because of the ubiquity of web programming. In fairness, it did kill off a few other technologies, like Flash and Java applets, but that was more Webkit and Chrome picking it as the winner than anything else.
Maybe these arguments are a bit hand-wavy, but the way I see it, it's like the C of the web programming era.
My Brother Here are 2 for you from a java guy:
It also has a Lot of footguns but isnt nearly as cluttered and complicated and lets you Focus on your task at hand more
myth
It may not be perfectly compatible, but being mostly compatible with C was a large part of its selling point when it was originally announced. Without that, it probably wouldn't have seen as much adoption. However, that choice also led to a lot of difficult design decisions which have become a liability today.
It's not mostly compatible, not even on the surface level, with any version of C post C89. And most of the ever-growing crap in the language came after the early years anyway, with constructs that are C++-exclusive.
JavaScript isn't even close to the worst language to ever exist.
I program JavaScript for a living. I’ve noticed how I’ve become blind to my language’s idiosyncracies, but I still believe it isn’t super bad. Especially with all the new shiny features that were piled on ever since 2018-ish (I think).
It is definitely nowhere near as bad as C++. And I’m only 6 minutes into the video.
There are two types of languages:
JavaScript, especially when using TypeScript, is quite frankly one of the most pleasant development experiences. Yes, there are still footguns here and there due to poor early choices and maintaining decades of backwards compatibility (===, etc), but literally all of them are caught by basic linting.
Go try using Salesforce's bastardized version of old Java (Apex) if you want to experience a truly unpleasant language.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I want to point out that you can't say the JS is pleasant to use while at the same time saying that that is the case if you are using another language that transpile to it. And specially when said language or "improved syntax" was created with the sole purpose to address shortcomings in JS.
Well two things:
yes I can. It's perfectly possible for a slice of pie to be pleasant, and a slice of pie with ice cream to be more pleasant.
the original point of discussion to kick off this thread was claiming that js is the least pleasant.
In my personal opinion though, that's not how I would describe Javascript vs. Typescript. Javascript was basically replaced overnight, to the point where you should be very harshly criticized for ever using it these days unless you're maintaining a legacy project.
Yeah, we're describing it the same way. A slice of pie with ice cream is preferable unless you don't have ice cream available.
If you want to go on a rant about JavaScript then just do so, stop trying to goad someone into an argument about it.
I'm not trying to goad you into an argument, though I could have admittedly phrased things better. I just can't think of any reason why someone would want adopt Javascript as it is with all of its problems. A slice of pie is better than nothing at all. On the other hand, using Javascript when a much better alternative exists (namely Typescript) would be a significant liability in my opinion.
In fact, pretty much everyone on our front-end team at work would agree too - they're pretty much unanimous in saying that Javascript should basically never be used.
I wholeheartedly agree that TypeScript effectively supercedes JavaScript if you're starting a new project.
JavaScript is still not the most unpleasant language to use though.
They managed to make a worse version of ColdFusion, truly impressive.
I have. I like it more than JS as a language.
I just fucking hate the fact that it's basically useless outside of salesforce; no one gives a fuck if you can code in apex except for people that need you to program some useless shit in salesforce
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
... I'm a polyglot^[1] . I fucking hate working on salesforce, but I prefer languages that work like Apex/Java/C++ over things that work like JS.
[1]: Let's see :
Apex doesn't have namespaces. It doesn't even let your organize your classes into subfolders. It is an absolute F-Tier language.
Try TypeScript, try React, try Go / Swift / Kotlin, spend more time with C#.
Why do you need namespaces? Apex has a singular purpose on a single platform.
If Apex had a "singular" purpose then they wouldn't have built it as a turing complete generalized programming language.
And the reason you need namespaces is for basic code organization. Classes organize functional objects with a module of code, namespaces let you're break code into modules.
If you have two distinct modules of code, each with their own
loggerclass you suddenly have a confusing naming conflict with both loggers being exposed everywhere (or forced you to rename one).So then it forces you to try and name your classes like RenderingLogger or Service_Logger and then you very quickly run into the fact that Apex imposes arbitrary length limits on class names.
If you're writing a simple db access script then whatever, it can get the job (worse then other languages but it can). If you're actually trying to build a proper application like you publish on AppExhange then it's shortcomings become apparent everywhere.
Hell it didn't have a reasonable unit testing framework until a side project from some devs introduced Apex Mockery, and it still sucks compared to Mockito and actual professional testing frameworks.
C++ and JS are objectively shit languages from the pool of used languages.
What you quoted is one of the many COPEs Bjarne used in his lifetime. Because unlike JS people. who admit that JS is shit that was originally hastily put together, Bjarne needs the C++ bureaucracy, and the facade of superiority (even if it only lives in his own mind), to keep going because he has nothing else to show for.
This is a great point. There are a lot of even worse languages that are dead/dying and deserve to do so.
But personally, I see a lot of people who continue to defend JS. And I have worked in C++ for about 5 years now and nobody I have worked with praises the language - most want to ditch it entirely and switch to Rust. I can think of maybe one person who claims that C++ is good enough, which is hardly any praise.
This is all anecdotal stuff, so maybe we don't see eye-to-eye though. I personally love C++, because it's a really fun language to write, but I simultaneously think it's an awful language, and the people who write/standardize it keep making the same kinds of bad mistakes over and over again.
Nah I see so many Indians praise This Language 💀
Visual Basic Requires A Registered OCX.
Which one? Hahahahaha.
I hate JS and I feel miserable writing it... but 5 minutes in and I'm convinced CPP is worse than JS. Even having learned some of it before I did JavaScript.
Would be true except it is not a programming language, it is a scripting language.
it's turing complete and has syntax. you're splitting hairs.
I am not. A programming language can be directly compiled into assembly to program the instructions. A scripting language isn't compiled and can only provide instructions on when and what to do to a program that has already been told how by an actual programming language.
This distinction is both illogical and ahistorical. Python is a scripting language that has a compiler. Indeed, any scripting language can be translated into a compilable language and then compiled, a process called transpiling.
There's also Java, which definitely compiles down to bytecode, but for a machine which physically doesn't exist. The Java Virtual Machine is an emulator that runs on supported hardware, in order to execute Java programs. Since the Java compiler does not produce, say, x86 assembly, your definition would assert that Java is not a compiled language, despite obviously having a compiler.
As an exercise for everyone else, also have a look at Lisp, a very-clear programing language with a compiler, but some specially-built machines were constructed that optimized for Lisp programs, with hardware support to do checks that would take longer on other architectures.
Yeah you clearly don’t know how modern languages work. Most “scripting languages” are compiled nowadays, in a preprocess step.
I've seen many people use a very different definition of "programming language".
https://github.com/wizardpisces/js-ziju
Aha, so it is like HTML
HTML is a markup language. It only defines layout.
HTML with CSS is Turing complete.
The fuck?
Actually, CSS is Turing complete, ever since you could do math in it.