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Years ago I was talking with a pregnant coworker about our families. We got onto the subject of how quiet I am. She said "I would hate it if my daughter turned out to be like you." I was just stunned tbh. Like damn, I can't help it that I'm quiet. Why is that such a bad thing?
Malignant narcissist.
At this point I'm convinced this is functionally a heritable trait, either directly via genetetics, or by way of conditioning, generational trauma.
Look at how the extroverts lost their minds during covid lockdown.
Yeah, the lockdown was enlightening. I lived alone through the entire two year shutdown. I still saw coworkers (because I was working for the government and forced to come into the office) but that was the entire extent of my in-person socialization. And I was perfectly content with that. I’d hop on Discord with some friends after work, and would socialize all night long. On the weekends, if I was playing a single player game, I could easily go two and a half days (Friday evening into Monday morning) without saying a single word.
But extroverts lost their goddamned minds. Half of them were power-walking in the overcrowded local park, even though they had never visited the park before. They just wanted an excuse to leave the house. The other half were ripping their houses down to the studs and completely rebuilding the interiors… Because they never spent any time at home until that point, and suddenly small annoyances about their living areas built up to major complaints. Half of them were rallying against masks, just because conservatives were promising a return to normalcy.
I'm sorry, but comparing yourself to actually physically isolated people while you were seeing people in person at work is wild. Humans are social creatures! I too loved the privacy and peace that came with covid, but if you saw people live and in person at work, you have no idea what it was like to actually quarantine at home with only screen people for companionship. It messes with your head.
Ehh, I think it depends on the person. I saw basically no one in person for weeks and it didn't bother me a lot. Humans are social animals, but we are also all very different.
What happened with the lockdowns and immediately after made believe being an extrovert is the result of failing to fully develop a working theory of mind.
I'm an introvert but even I struggled with quarantine. Everyone needs at least some degree of human interaction.
It didn't help that I was already pretty isolated before the pandemic, so most of my human interaction was from the checkout counter in stores, cafe baristas, or wait staff at a restaurant. I kinda depended on those little micro-interactions to get my social fix. And I didn't have friends to hang out with on the porch or meet at an outdoor spot. I didn't have an online chat group to rely on either.
People who have those things really take them for granted. Like, yeah, I get it, introverts don't need to be surrounded by people all the time, in fact that would be torture. I'm that way too. But I can't be completely alone all the time either, I wind up too depressed to even feed myself.
Getting a cat has literally saved my life, given me a reason to live, helped me stop talking to myself like a madman (literally insane ramblings), helped me find my way to some semblance of a reality that's anchored in more than just one point within my own perception, some degree of consensus reality even if the only other being sharing that consensus is a cat.
It's not perfect, my cat can't stand in for every social/psychological need for human interaction. But she can stand in for some of those needs, and for now it's enough.
rant:
It has to be enough, because I don't have any other option. I can't just choose to be accepted by society. That's a lie told by the "self-help" grift community. We are not the masters of our own circumstances, everyone depends on others for their degree of social acceptance or lack thereof.That's why it's so toxic to tell young people "don't be cool, you'll regret it later in life." No, you'll regret not being cool when nobody likes you and you can't find a job because most positions are filled by personal relationships and networking, not by fairly considering qualified applicants. What defines "being cool" is what matters. Different people have different ideas of "cool." It's not about "don't be cool" it's about teaching what's cool and what isn't.
Growing up, I internalized that "don't give in to peer pressure" thing a little too much. I made it a point to never conform to any social norms, and I thought that made me better for everyone else. It was a badge of honor that no one liked me. Until I became an adult and it dawned on me that it's impossible to get anywhere in life if literally no one likes you.
Some amount of peer pressure is a good thing. It's what maintains social cohesion. It's what makes people internalize a common set of values (and yes, everyone has personal values, even if yours are different from others' or the mainstream, you do still have values, and if you share them with others within a subculture then they are socially enforced, just like any other). Peer pressure teaches people "right from wrong," and "acceptable from unacceptable" behavior. Without it, everyone would be deviant and ego-centric.
So the problem isn't "don't give in to peer pressure," it's teaching "what peer pressure to follow, and what to reject."
I'm on my soap box because part of the reason I'm such a maladjusted adult is because as a kid I was sheltered and isolated from a "sinful world," and never learned the social norms that most people do, that come so naturally to most people that by the time they reach adulthood they don't even think about them. I'm just expected to know certain things, certain social scripts and faux pas, and if I don't or it's not so intuitive that it's just my default subconscious reaction, then people view that as "immature" or "deviant" or "deliberate misbehavior," when the fact is I'm doing the best I can, I tried for decades to learn how to be normal, but no matter what I do or how many times I analyze patterns or try to emulate the behavior I see, it's never enough, it's never quite right, there's always something wrong with it because there's always another layer or detail or nuance that I don't understand. I can literally never make up for those formative years of social development that I missed growing up, because the adults in my life were trying to "protect" me from the outside world...
It does seem like a lot of the world is still paying for that though. ("the world is a little safer if you wear a mask" -> votes far right to protect their freedom)
There are so many offensive things you can say to pregnants, i hope you thought of one.
I mean you can help it. We humans got to where we are because we can literally adapt to any situation. If you really wanted to, you could practice speaking and also initiating to speak and then do it, removing the "quiet" label from you.
Disclaimer, I'm not saying that this is a worthwhile goal or that being quiet is a problem in any way. If someone likes being quiet, then they should be allowed to be quiet without a judgemental asshole saying such things like they did to you. As long as you're a kind human trying to be good, I'd want my children to turn out like you :D
sounds like that coworker likes to be center of attention. its definitely a passive aggressive statement, shes basically saying a "loner with no social skills, probably a wierdo because you arnt social, and saying her daughter wont grow up to be a loser". its the same as saying "no offense" but say something offense to you.
Quiet people serve as a mirror to people who can't shut up. That becomes uncomfortable for people who don't like what they see.
That reminds me of a time I was in a small party. I said something to my friend and a girl suddenly excitedly said "YAY! You speak as well!" That shut me up for the rest of the evening lol. I didn't know how to respond to that, I didn't even finish saying what I was saying to my friend.
I've always been the quiet one. I've always been fine with being the quiet one, I kind of like to listen to people. But when she said that, I got very confused and it sort of bothered me for a bit. Not for long though, I decided that she was the weird one.
My response to that has always been, "Yeah, but I don't blurt out whatever stupid shit rattles around in my head."
Real foot in her mouth moment
Edit: ITT: Lemmings in denile that their personal problems are mostly due to their lack of social skills, not capitalism.
Because being "a quiet person" almost universally indicates some kind of problem that is or is going to hold you back in life. It usually indicates that you have social anxiety, poorly developed social skills, have a negative outlook and disposition, have little confidence in yourself or your opinions, are just plain dumb or dull, some other weird thing, or some combination of the above.
Being "introverted" is a typical excuse quiet people use. But the actual definition of introversion just means you have a greater affinity for alone time - not that you rarely speak in social situations. Being quiet is corrolated with being introverted - if you have a larger affinity for alone time, you will likely practice socializing less frequently, leading to less confidence, leading to a greater aversion to social situations, which can become a viscuous cycle. But this is a skill issue, not an intrinsic character trait, and people with greater introversion can and do excell in any number of social situations all the time.
Meanwhile, being a "quiet person" will hamstring you in basically every aspect of life. Humans are social animals, and being able to socialize effectively is one of the biggest advantages you can have.
Want to get good grades in school? Well teachers are more willing to give you a break or extra help if they know you because you talk to them. Other classmates are more willing to form study groups with you. You'll have a better chance of forming a team with the smartest kids for class projects.
Want to excell in your career? It helps if you are a chatterbox who interviews well. It helps if you love meeting new people in your industry and form a big network of people who like you. It helps if you can have a fun conversation with your boss, or your boss's boss, or your boss's boss's boss's boss. So you really still believe, in this day and age, that if you quietly keep your head down and get your work done better than everyone else, that you will be first in line for raises and promotions? No! Your ability to perform useful tasks quickly means that you probably won't get fired - but mostly because it means that they expect that they'll be able to save on the budget, since you'll never have the courage to ask for anything more than an inflation raise. And being promoted is mostly about giving you authority over others - and who the fuck is going to respect the authority of someone who never speaks and can't hold anyone's eye contact?
Want to have friends? A large and diverse social group who can support you in times of need? Help you fix your car, give you a couch to crash on, give you career advice, invite you to join in fun new hobbies, give you a sense of warmth and community, and be your emotional support system when your whole life goes sideways? Well guess what? Most people only really care about someone else if they know that person, and the primary way you know a person is by listening to them talk about things. Sure, as a quiet person you will probably gain a small group of close friends who you actually can speak freely with - but someone who speaks freely with everyone will have 10x the social connections or more. A quiet and reserved person can lean on their circle of a half dozen friends in time of need. A social, charismatic person can get help from someone they met once, ten years ago, in a different country. And even if the quiet person truly loves their small circle of friends - life happens. People get busy with jobs, or kids. They move to different places. They change their priorities in life. People die. Friend circles which aren't consistently adding new members tend to dwindle over time, and you could very easily end up completely alone if you never developed the skill of meeting new people and developing relationships with them.
And dating? I don't care if you want a white picket fence and a golden retriever, or want to blow your load on a different pair of titties every night of the week - quiet people get fucked in dating. Wait. No. The opposite of that.... Yeah, they typically aren't getting fucked. At least not by the people they want. Forget about any talk of "game" or charisma - the biggest factor in dating success is literally just the number of attractive strangers you say "hi" to. If you have a hard time going up to a stranger and saying "hi", if you join a conversation by entering the circle and then never say a word, or if you rarely show up to social events where there are new people present, then your pool of potential dates will be extremely limited solely because you can't end up dating someone that you never say a word to. And beyond playing the numbers game - hey guys, what do women want? Everyone say it with me - CONFIDENCE. Okay, so how is any given woman going to know you are confident? Probably by the fact that you walk into a social situation smiling and eager to talk to people, because you are confident that people will like you, and you are confident that meeting new people will be fun. And girls - ya know when you see the guy who shows up to the party and everyone cheers when he walks in? The guy who has amazing hair and a hot body and who spends his weekends taking disadvantaged urban youth on backpacking trips? Sure, maybe he'll take a shine to you and have a fling, and maybe that will turn into something long term - but if he's looking for a girlie to be a long term partner, who is he getting obsessed with? Probably the girl who is dashing around the room squeeling with joy every time a new person arrives and giving them a huge hug, the girl who is excitedly talking about her hobbies, job, or emotional revelations to a circle of smiling friends and acquaintances, the girl who is grabbing people and dragging them onto the dance floor to get the party started. Sure, statistically everyone finds someone, eventually... but the people who are having a good time and getting compliments from their friends about their amazing new partner, are going to be the people who talk a lot to a lot of people.
This isn't to say that quiet people can't be happy, can't have friends or partners, or can't succeed in life. And maybe someone will say that this whole analysis is shallow and misguided, and that pursuing any of these things by opening their mouth and speaking more would be a betrayal of their deep inner self or something. But this is kind of like choosing to be homeless because getting any kind of job would be a betrayal of the cause of overthrowing the capitalists and creating a utopian society. Like, if you really feel that way, I guess I can't change your mind - but its not the life I would choose for myself, and I can understand why someone wouldn't want it for their child.
This comment is my submission to this thread, lmao. You rarely see someone spew out so many words and get so little right.
Get em dude
therein lies the rub.
reading that it seems you've mistaken confidence for competence, a connon enough mistake.
On the other hand some people could stand to say a little less.
I don't disagree
Pro tip: you can save 1/3 words by just saying "I agree."
Sorry, I'm not very witty
I find that a little witty.
People don't need an excuse to not want to talk to you, which incidentally is itself one of many "great" ways to learn to be quiet. As an example, I once had a roommate who was on some kind of medication for social anxiety, and he was one of the most irritating people I ever met. Failing to overcome his inhibitions was clearly not the main problem, those inhibitions were totally rational, and could have been a stopgap to avoid stepping on people's toes despite not having any intuitive understanding or intrinsic interest in how to do that.
I think something that people who are casually socially successful often don't understand is how important it is to that success to have the correct emotional reactions to other people, and how difficult it is and how wrong it feels to fake those. That is a betrayal of yourself. You should strongly resist approaching friendship as an instrumental goal or a puzzle to be solved. For this reason it isn't well described as a skill, because the most important factors are not skills.
Solitude really isn't the end of the world, it could be a lot worse, despite how challenging it is to face. It does no one any favors to think of this as a high stakes game with solitude as the punishment for losing, that's not actually how it is.
If you want quiet people to talk to you, the main thing would be helping them understand that it is genuinely safe to do so. If you want quiet people to talk to other people, that's probably none of your business.
Some of us are quiet because we've learned the value of thinking before we speak.
Some of us are quiet because we're listening. I've made some very solid friendships that way.
This is basically a masturbatory defence mechanism - claiming that an obvious flaw is actually an asset. I'm not saying you should just vomit out every word that comes into your head. But this kind of statement implies that there are the oh-so-very-smart-and-thoughtful quiet people, stoicly listening in their wise wisdom, and then the loud, vulgar idiots who endlessly blather on. They probably eat fast food and watch reality tv, too.
But... no. Being thoughtful and choosing your words carefully, being kind, understanding what other people are saying before you speak. That's all great. That doesn't mean you're "quiet". Thoughtful people will still interject with their own views, ask followup questions, or push back on things they disagree with. All of which require speaking - and so if you do these things regularly, you won't be "that quiet person who never speaks"
Fuck off with that judgmenal bullshit
Completely accurate no notes. My introversion has nothing to do with the social anxiety that cripples my social life.
Still, pretty tactless to blurt that out to OP.
I don't disagree. Very tactless.
I'm an extrovert and while some of what you've said has merit you're really overstating it. I've had plenty of quiet people in my life who are more successful than me. Meanwhile my mom and I with our shared ability to chat with most people and keep talking for hours on end have faced plenty of struggles due to our shared difficulties with not doing that.
Though I will concede you are right in that it's really good at getting you laid.
Also it's just rude as hell to tell someone you hope your kid doesn't turn out like them.
I mean, knowing when not to talk is a skill, too.
And (supposing we're talking about income or wealth as the metric for success) I'm not saying no given quiet person can be more successful than a talkative person. But all things being equal, the person who is more confident and at ease talking to others and making connections will be more successful.
I don't disagree
ok
All things being equal, someone who is able and willing to converse normally will get more of what they want out of life than someone who is not.
I feel like this analysis is serious enough to warrant a bigger response, but as I am short on time I will just say that sometimes I simply don't have much to add and would rather mostly observe.
Yeah, I mean, everyone does that. There's a difference between not feeling talkative because you are tired or sad or the conversation doesn't interest you, and being "that guy who has said 3 words in the last 3 months"