this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2026
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Fuck AI
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A place for all those who loathe AI to discuss things, post articles, and ridicule the AI hype. Proud supporter of working people. And proud booer of SXSW 2024.
AI, in this case, refers to LLMs, GPT technology, and anything listed as "AI" meant to increase market valuations.
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Code written with the help of LLM and being reviewed is different than like what was happening with Lutris where the developer decided to obfuscate their use of AI-generated code.
The approach you suggest to totally ban it, while in principle can agree and I think that's noble, it could lead to people accusing each other of using AI code where it may or may not have happened, or others just hiding it and trying to submit anyway without the reviewers knowing, which is just counter-productive.
I've followed Lemmy development now for 3 years, the devs approach is slow and steady, to a fault in some people's views. I think it's a better use of open source resources if we encourage candor and honesty. If the repo gets spammed with AI-generated PRs, then it will probably be blanket banned, but contributors accurately documenting and reporting their usage of AI will help direct reviewers attention to ensure the code is not slop quality or full of hallucinations.
In my opinion, this argument is exactly the same as saying "we can't enforce people not stealing GPL-licensed code and copy&pasting it into our project, so we might as well allow it and ask them to disclose it."
You can try to argue AI may actually be useful, which seems like what they did, and that would more fairly inform a policy in my opinion. I think your argument doesn't.
Yeah, and of top of that all the reasons why we hate AI,
My argument is that a total ban on AI use is more comparable to saying "Code from any other coding project is not allowed". It will start unproductive arguments over boilerplate, struct definitions and other commonly used code.
The broadness and vaagueness of "no AI whatsoever" or "no code from any other projects whatsoever" will be more confusing than saying, "if you do copy any code from another project, let us know where from". Then the PR can be evaluated, rejected if it's nonfree or just poor quality, rather than incentivizing people to pretend other people's code is their own, risking bigger consequences for the whole project. People can be honest if they got inspiration from stackoverflow, a reference book, or another project, if they are allowed to be.
I'm not saying AI should be blanket allowed, the submitter needs to understand the code, enough to be able to revise it for errors themselves if the devs point out something. They can't just say "I asked AI and it's confident that the code does this and is bug free".
I don't get the difficulty of rejecting "if it's nonfree or just poor quality or known LLM code". I don't think it's a vague criterion.
And for many projects, if you admit it's from a StackOverflow post, unless you can show it's not a direct copy they will reject it as well. This isn't commonly taken as incentivizing people to lie.
Now whether you think LLMs are worth the trouble to use is a different discussion, but the enforcement point doesn't convince me.
There is also a responsibility and liability question here. If something turns out to be a copyright issue and the contributor skirted a known rule, the moral judgement may look different than if you knew and included it anyway. (I can't comment on the legal outcomes since I'm not a lawyer.)
To be specific, the jump you are making is likening LLM output to non-free code, while on the surface level it makes sense, it's much closer to making stuff based on copied code. In the US at least, there's clear legal precedent that LLM fabrications are not copyrightable.
Blanket AI bans are enforceable, I'm not arguing against that, it's just that I don't think it's worth instituting, that it's not a good fit for this project. My argument is that a Lemmy development policy of "please mark which parts of your code are AI-generated and how you used LLMs, and we will evaluate accordingly" is better than "if you indicate anywhere that your code is AI/LLM-generated, we will automatically reject it".
My opinion is that the data disagrees with you: 1. https://www.psu.edu/news/research/story/beyond-memorization-text-generators-may-plagiarize-beyond-copy-and-paste 2. https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3543507.3583199 3. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2949719123000213#b7 4. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2026/01/ai-memorization-research/685552/ 5. Related high profile incident that is very telling: https://www.pcgamer.com/software/ai/microsoft-uses-plagiarized-ai-slop-flowchart-to-explain-how-github-works-removes-it-after-original-creator-calls-it-out-careless-blatantly-amateuristic-and-lacking-any-ambition-to-put-it-gently/
I see many people doubt this says anything about training data copyright, beyond AI user copyright.
This isn't legal advice, I'm not a lawyer.
I don't mean in any way to imply that your opinion isn't sound, but simply that I don't agree with it here in the context of whether the Lemmy devs should accept or not PRs with any reported LLM usage.
Its different but no better. Its still AI slop, just human reviewed AI slop.
Not all ai, or rather, llm output is slop. Some is useful. The reason for review is to differentiate. I'm not just talking about coding. I'm talking about their actual useful functionality.
It would be great if they didn't hallucinate, or produce slop. It would also be great if the fact that companies use them instead of workers meant we worked less hours and had more leisure time rather than less paying jobs and more stress. The llm is not at fault for the structure of society.
Llm and ai is a tool. If used appropriately, there should be no issue. Of used inappropriately, it should be called out. Certainly where there is a risk of it appearing on the surface to be good, but not actually good,.like AI generated codez then marking it as such seems reasonable. Banning it doesn't get rid of it. It hides it. It exists and is now in the world. We need to have policies that support appropriate use.
I'm sorry, but no matter how many times I hear this argument, it never addresses the issues with AI that exist regardless of its usecase. There are plenty of other unacceptable things in this world that we apply strict bans to. No, it will never rid the world of the issue, but that doesn't mean you concede to "appropriate" uses of the maliciously envisioned technology. Someone in the world will always be hungry, but that doesn't mean we settle for mostly eradicating world hunger, we try to do all we can.
No amount of "but it's for a good purpose" with erase the issues inherent to LLMs and "generative" AI. I like the idea of pure tedium being automated in the future, but so long as its based on the this tech as it currently exists, any genuine attempt to make create something positive is a non-starter. I'm not a "luddite", I don't hate progress or new ideas, I simply refuse to support projects that rub shoulders with hyper-capitalist theft machines that destroy the planet.
In your analogy, we don't ban processed food as some people go hungry. We use agriculture to feed as many as possible with better foods. We try to do better. But more production is generally better. That's what AI is, the equivalent of processed food. It's not real food, it's less healthy but it's functional.
Same with ai. It is an input and output machine. It has costs associated. We assess the output on this merits and cost. If the output is slop, it should be discarded. If it is functional output, it gets used.
I knew I shouldn't have used that analogy, because then the focus would be redirected to it and I'd end up defending it instead of the position it was meant to represent.
I've said what I intended to say. I don't wanna argue over the uses of AI when its the foundation itself that's rotten. There's no good way to make use of "gen" AI as it stands.
It's fine you have that opinion. I disagree and so do many others. I've used ai to generate notes, checklists, letters,.emails, work templates etc.
The output was correct and valid in most cases. What about the foundation is rotten, in your view? The fact that it's based on other people's work being regurgitated, or the environmental concerns, or how big tech is trying to leverage it to be an arbiter of knowledge and computing power? All are valid concerns, but they don't mean the technology is inherently unusable or unethical.
Banning it because of the views of some is unfair on the views of others. I do think that marking it is appropriate, so that anyone who objects to its use can avoid it. I would be concerned that over time or becomes impossible to avoid though. However, that's the point of open source. People can fork projects at the point where there is no AI code (except in the case where that is purposefully obfuscated).
"What about the foundation is rotten, in your view? The fact that it's based on other people's work being regurgitated, or the environmental concerns, or how big tech is trying to leverage it to be an arbiter of knowledge and computing power? All are valid concerns, but they don't mean the technology is inherently unusable or unethical."
It literally does. There's no point in this discussion if we're disagreeing over something so fundamental.
Cool, I can see it's a waste of time too if you're not able to appreciate other people's view or express yours beyond absolutisms. It's not a discussion when the only view you pay attention to is your own.
Lol as if I didn't hear you out. At this point anyone could present any point against "generative" AI and you'd find a way to say "but if it produces something that works".
At least, that's how you've come off. I know I'm being abrasive, but I genuinely don't wanna believe people think like that, and I don't enjoy fighting like this.
When tedious tasks can be automated without using tech made by fascists for fascists, I'll be all over that. Until then, its pretty hard to defend.
Nope, you've offered no justifications or rationale up to this point. Just AI bad. Ban it.
There are llm that are not made by fascists, including in Europe, open source models that are self hosted and Chinese models. I assume you mean American tech is fascism.