this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2026
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Yes, I'm sure you keep eating meat out of concern for the sheep.
Veganism is objectively correct. The fact that it contains further ethical questions in certain extremely specific scenarios doesn't mean it isn't overwhelmingly the right action to take.
As for sheep? Animal refuges. If there aren't enough for all of them, that's on you fucking carnists. Vegans have certainly done their part funding them.
Animals dont need a fucking purpose in order to exist. Fucking moron. Sorry I might be grumpy right now.
I don't support the cruel industrial farming of animals. Yet I eat meat. Why do you think that's a contradiction? I support vegan products, but find veganism as a philosophy irrational. Also no contradiction.
"Animal refuges"? Oh you mean a large place for them to be in, somewhere where humans take care of them? And in these "refuges", would you torture the sheep by not caring for them, by not shearing them? Supposing you answer with the option that means you're not willfully torturing them, then is it morally wrong to use the wool you gain from that shearing?
You're pretending the world is black-and-white and it's hilarious.
You can't answer the hunting question either. You'd just argue it's unnecessary brutality. But if the deer population isn't kept in check by the hunters, both animals and humans would endure more suffering. So if you're against animal and human suffering, you have to be pro-population control of those animals. Because without, deer crashes with cars would increase, harming both animal and human, and overpopulation of deer would literally destroy the environment in which they live for a// animals.
But the answers I've gotten from vegans include for instance releasing wolves into population centers in areas which haven't had wolves for hundreds if not thousands of years. As if the wolves would 1) have an understanding of the amount of deer they need to cull or 2) would somehow kill the deer more humanely than a one-shot kill from a .308?
Your world view only works when you ignore a majority of what happens in the real world. You do realise that the produce you buy is also the product of animal suffering, as the farmers have to keep animals from eating their crop, and they don't follow "please don't eat these veggies dear rabbit/deer/bird, theyre for vegans" signs?
"You fucking carnists"
You think you're offending me, but you're really not. You're just showing how mad you are when your childish worldview is even slightly poked at. My own views are rock solid because I actually made them myself instead of just hopping to the nearest bandwagon.
So, are you for or against population control of deer? If you're against it, then you're indirectly for animal and human suffering increasing. If you're pro-population control, then you're probably also able to understand that you won't be able to use condoms for it, and the deer actually have to be culled.
And are you gonna torture the sheep in your "animal refuges" (please tell me what form these refuges take in which they're clearly distinct from farms? :D) and not shear them, or are you gonna ban the use of the wool that results from you helping them, because your ideology says so and you don't see a problem in just wasting a fuckton of materials because you've never lacked for anything in your cosy life?
Yes, you are a hypocrite. Bending over backwards to continue justifying the eating of meat is honestly just sad to watch. If you're not offended by being called a carnist, you should be.
No, obviously animal refuges do not torture their animals. If domesticated sheep need to be sheared, they obviously would be - for the ANIMAL'S benefit, not for humans. Same as any zoo, wildlife refuge, etc. If it is possible to use that wool in an ethical manner without creating perverse incentives, then some vegans would be ok with that. Others would not. Again, the point would be the welfare of the animal; whichever is best for then is what vegans would advocate for.
We may or may not be able to accurately predict the harm that may come to animals if we stop doing wildlife management. We know they are harmed if we shoot them. Therefore, most vegans plump for complete non-interference. If there is a very clear case to be made for intervention, then the decision might be different on a casr-by-case basis.
Yes, I am very aware that animals are harmed by conventional farming practices. However, given that getting your calories from meat takes something like six times the land to grow feed, it is still the more ethical option. It is impossible to cause zero harm while still remaining alive; veganism simply demands we harm as little as possible.
It's always this with vegans. You simply have no arguments, so you make a strawman in which you think I'm trying to justify eating meat. It's a wonder you didn't say "justify murder", lol. How about some more "you fucking carnists" which you say to literally anyone who even dares question the holy teachings of veganism.
Which just shows how empty the ideology is, which makes it even worse when people are religiously vegan like you. Because veganism is irrational in the end, just like I've shown.
A day or two of crying yet not a single answer, just a bunch of insults and fallacies.
I don't eat meat often so why would I be offended by being called something I'm not and which is only insulting in your mind? It's like if I assumed you're gay and then tried pretending that's an insult, like some teenager. Would that offend you? If it would, you should rethink your values. But I'm sure it doesn't, just like your empty attempts at insults don't hurt me.
I mostly eat rice and vegetables and some fish, so it's rather rarely that I buy meat, especially because game is so expensive and as I've said, I don't support factory farmed meat. Must be a new thing to you, someone actually thinking through the values they practice..?
What do you mean "if"? Oh right because you tried arguing "wild sheep exit they dont need to be sheered"? :D there's no "If" about it. Sheep have to be shorn or the tangled matt becomes a vector for all sorts of illnesses and harms.
Oh, "some" but not all? Is that because vegans are so "internally consistent"? Haha.
Yeah ofc it would be moral to use wool when there aren't incentives to abuse the animals. That's a given for any rational person. Unfortunately that description usually takes vegans out of play. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No we know for a fact that overpopulation of deer which causes overbrowsing is definitely harmful and overpopulation of deer undoubtedly increases car-deer crashes. So the overall amount of suffering is without a doubt increased if you stop shooting the deer. That is not in question. If you think it is, you don't understand rather basic biology even after it's been explained and sourced to you.
Moose exclosures (fenced-off areas) are used to determine the ecological impacts of cervids, allowing scientists to compare flora, fauna, and soil in areas inside and outside of exclosures.[11][13] Changes in plant communities in response to herbivory reflect the differential palatability of plants to the overabundant herbivore, as well as the variable ability of plants to tolerate high levels of browsing.[9] The heights of plants preferred by herbivores can give indications of the local and regional herbivore density.[14] Compositional and structural changes in forest vegetation can have cascading effects on the entire ecosystem, including impacts on soil quality and stability, micro- and macro- invertebrates, small mammals, songbirds, and perhaps even large predators.[9][15][10][11]
https://doi.org/10.1146%2Fannurev.ecolsys.35.021103.105725
https://doi.org/10.2307%2F3100037
So unless youre denying those studies done in moose enclosures as some sort of bullshit or that you actually have an academic paper ready to dispute their findings..? Oh you don't? I'm shocked.
We know we have to control their population. Yes, eveyone would love to live in your lalaland where nothing ever dies and the circle of life just... doesn't exist and humans don't have to take care of our environment, just keep yelling about "carnists" while the entire ecosystem gets destroyed because you're too afraid of death to control deer population so now you've killed off the entire ecosystem. Congrats!
Because implying I'm "a carnist" who eats nothing but meat isn't at all irrational or a ridiculous fallacy? Oookay.
But you can't answer any of the questions I've actually put to you, no, you just display your incredible ignorance and the same garbage irrational bs I see every time I show those arguments. And I'd like to remind you I dated a vegan in the army as well. See I've actually thought my stance through. You've just hopped onto a bandwagon because you weren't up to making your own worldview. Thinking is so hard, huh?
Then you simply have no choice but to be **pro-**hunting them. There's no other way about it. That is the path of least harm. All your weird ass notions either increase harm (wolves tearing deer apart while they're alive) or ignore reality, pretend like we don't know what uncontrolled deer populations cause but that we'd know that "shooting is harmful". To an individual, sure. But if that individual isn't harmed, a majority of the individuals die. And that's more harm than one individual.
Also btw, if that harm reduction logic is also applied to humans, then you're also for the legalisation of all drugs. Regulated, ofc, but legal.
Cry more, you know you're wrong. Not wasting any more time on you.
Yeah sure. You could like definitely totally answer, but you choose not to. Even though you do reply.
It's literally always the same. You can't answer because veganism is irrational due to it's absolutist takes.
You have to be pro-population control of deer if you're for reducing suffering. No matter how much you stomp your foot it won't change well documented biological facts.