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Their "political beliefs" are inherently violent and actively seek to oppress and cause harm to those they deem as "lesser". Don't try to downplay this with silvery words.
It doesn't matter if they are angry and confused when they are actively creating a hostile environment for those they victimize. We first must protect our communities. So, they have two options: stop spouting their bullshit so we can ensure the safety and comfort of our community or be stopped by any means necessary. If they end up dead then they made their choice to die on the hill of supporting oppression.
We should be going after the root cause, yes, but first we must build our communities so that we can have the foundation to do so and we cannot accomplish that while we have fascist supporters actively breaking that community down by spreading their hatred.
Ahh, so you're trying to stop violence with a "preemptive" strike? It's better to kill them now so they don't kill others later?
Kind of ironic, don't you think?
What is preemptive about people fighting back against their active oppressors?
Where do you draw the line of acceptable self-defense? Or are you just one of those “AlL viOlEnCE iS bAD nO mATteR tHe cONteXT!” idiots?
What a blatant interpretation of what I said.
It isn't preemptive. It is direct, self defense against it. They start it by engaging in inherently violent rhetoric. We then tell them to stop spouting their oppressive bullshit. If they don't, they will be made to stop to defend the community against them and protect those who they are attempting to marginalize.
If you cannot understand this simple explanation, then you cannot be helped or are clearly arguing in bad faith.
I love when the nazi lovers out themselves.
It's sad people like you think they're right when they're wrong.
If you don't remove all of the cancer and rot, it will continue to fester and grow until it kills the host.
So you think it makes more sense to target the symptom rather than the cause?
You're not just advocating for this because it's easier and more convenient than going after the source?
The last time fascism rose globally 70 million people died. Fascism is a cancer that needs to be cut out and destroyed or it will multiply and destroy everything and everyone in its path. It’s global cancer
Fuck your false dichotomy bullshit.
You can treat the symptoms while working to cure the cause. The two are not mutually exclusive. Each has merit and doing both simultaneously has compounding benefits.
And to you, "treating the symptoms" is beating and murdering people who disagree with you?
Specifically those who disagree with my right to live. If you disagree on any other front, there's no reason for violence.
How are they disagreeing with your right to live?
Why do you think this is what they believe?
The more specifics you can use, the better.
Ex: Instead of saying "Literally by holding the opinion that people like myself shouldn’t exist," can you tell me what that opinion actually is? I'm not even sure what you mean by "people like yourself."
I don't know how much clearer that can be. Their opinion is that I shouldn't exist. Or that I should die. Or that we should move towards a world where people like me don't exist.
I don't see what my identity has to do with this. Whether I'm a cis-het white male or bipoc gay trans, those opinions are equally problematic.
Right here. This is where you can make it clearer. What is making you think that is their opinion? And just to clarify, by 'exist' do you mean they want you dead, or just out of sight?
When you say "people like yourself," how is anyone supposed to know what you're talking about?
You generally learn of people's opinions when they tell you their opinions. Not that this is relevant in this discussion. The point is that targeting people who hold such opinions is what it means to "treat the symptoms" in this context. Figuring out who holds such opinions is a different matter.
How is my exact identity relevant? Do you think it's more acceptable to get rid of one group of people versus another? As long as they don't infringe on other people's right to live, everyone should have an equal right to live their life.
Man, it's really crazy watching the mental gymnastics you're willing to play just to avoid giving a direct answer.
You must not be too confident in your stance if you have to beat around the bush like this whenever you're asked to give details.
I'm speaking in generalities because it's a very general stance.
What you're doing is the equivalent of going to someone who says
x+x=2xand and claiming they must not know what they're saying because they're not telling you what exact valuexis."They want people like me to not exist" is not a "general stance." You're talking specifically about "people like you," which you've still yet to specify what that means. Do you mean lemmyers? People with usernames that start with H? I don't know anything about you, so giving an answer like that is meaningless without further context.
You also chose to make this about you, then say "I'm not giving personal information" when you could've just been specific about the set of people you're referring to. I feel like you're avoiding specifics because you know it will weaken your argument.
Don't pretend that because you're trying to conflate this with math that you're somehow correct or logical.
I see you're incapable of giving a direct answer though, so I'm going to stop wasting my time.
Good luck.
Have you not noticed the people getting shot in the fucking street?
Yes? People get shot and killed all the time for all sorts of different reasons.
What are you trying to argue? You can be direct about it instead of trying to play leapfrog with yourself.
Congrats, you play stupid real fucking stupid, stupid.
Fuck off, I see what you’re doing. I’m done interacting with this high school debate idiocy.
Ok, just making sure you couldn't directly articulate why you think they want "people like you" to die. Maybe next time don't make the claim if you're going to run away the moment it's scrutinized.
You wouldn't survive on a high school debate team.
Oh fuck of with that disingenuous "people who disagree with you" bullshit.
You're clearly here in bad faith.
Fuck off, fascist sympathizer.
You're clearly too far gone.
I hope you get the help you need.
Hope you meet the fate those like you deserve.
I know you're angry, but this isn't the way.
Eat shit and die, fascist sympathizer. Fuck your performative politeness.
I rest my case.
Good luck out there.
"I have annoyed this person with performative politeness and bad faith arguing in support of those who espouse inherently violent rhetoric to the point they told me to fuck off, repeatedly. Now I get to act smug because they don't maintain an arbitrary decorum."
Gods you're a fucking child.
Don't argue with people John Brown would have shot.
You're just talking with yourself at this point.
If you don't think you need help, then that's why you need help.
I'm genuinely concerned for your well-being, because this isn't healthy.
You lie through your teeth. Fuck your fake concern. Go bite pavement.
Ok.
The voting and response to your reasonable comments are what disappoint me most about the Fediverse. These people aren't against violence out of principle. They're against violence directed at their people.
There have been multiple times I've had to point out in politics and news communities the irony of people on the left literally dehumanizing their opponents. Apparently, people perceived as Nazi sympathizers don't deserve trials, because they're not even really people. We shouldn't tolerate the intolerant, but that's not not the same as not giving them due process. Even the literal Nazis got trials.
We know what happens when ideological extremists take power. They kill off their opponents to preserve doing things the "right" way. That happens whether they started out believing in their racial superiority or believing the workers need to rise above their oppressors. Eventually, they turn their nations into totalitarian hellholes so the "bad" guys don't return to power. I guess we should just start shooting Commies and Nazis dead in the streets so that doesn't happen. Also, the "centrists" who aren't Commies or Nazis should die because they aren't sufficiently against Commies or Nazis depending on your frame or reference.
Yes, I try to be forgiving and think it's mostly due to a mob mentality. Everyone wants to one-up each other to show that they're more dedicated to the cause, and eventually that leads to cheering when others are murdered for their beliefs.
You have a good point about ideological extremists taking power. It's what happened in Nazi Germany. It's what happened in the Soviet Union. It's what's happening in North Korea.
I wish we, collectively, could understand that this has more to do with human nature rather than what's actually being discussed. Until we reach that point, we can expect to keep making the same mistakes again and again.
Your whole thing perceives ANY act of violence as escalating into extremism, how is that not the exact same kind of totalitarian black and white authoritarian ideology just defanged and turned on its head? Anyone doing violence of any kind is just as bad as Nazis, because you were fed some pacifist pseudo religious isolated morality bullshit tale at some point that you took as an absolute truth. That’s stupid. That is simply not how the real world works.
Where does self defense fit into your enlightened pacifist worldview?
Yeah, you don't know what your talking about and you're making assumptions that aren't true.
This wasn't self defense, and I never proclaimed to be a pacifist. I said we should target the source rather than the symptoms.
I think you're just angry and trying to fit in with your peers.
I think you just enjoy jerking yourself off up there on your pedestal. Fuck you and the moral high horse you rode in on.
We see you.
You can't see past your blind rage.
I can’t see past your mom’s fat ass.
I can tell you're part of the next generation.
One if these twats basically told you you should die for defending Nazis, and all you did was say the guy shouldn't have been beaten to death.