Actual Discussion

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Are you tired of going into controversial threads and having people not discuss things, circlejerking, or using emotional responses in place of logic? Us too.

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People prefer to suppress different perspectives rather then engaging - especially on social media (hackertalks.com)

submitted 7 months ago by jet@hackertalks.com to c/actual_discussion@lemmy.ca

37 comments fedilink hide all child comments

There is a book called “On Being Certain”, by Robert A Burton who’s a neurologist, discussing how we know what we know. He postulates that the sense of “conviction” has less to do with objective reality and far more to do with “a feeling of knowing.” He also suggests that we are far less self-aware than we think we are.

People see a different viewpoint and their body reactively brings up all the conditioning received from popular advice. Instinctively, they hit the downvote button, thinking that they are rightfully decreasing the noise of a dangerous idea and protecting the less aware.

Most people aren’t interested in debate nor challenging the reality they find themselves in, or even the framing and interpretation of that reality.

Is lemmy supposed to be better then other social media?

How do we make lemmy a more thoughtful place? Or how do we create meaningful spaces on lemmy for thoughtful discussion of opposing views?

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[–] TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That you should stop talking about Paradox of Tolerance. Because it's a specific problem in a specific context, and you're generalizing it to internet forums. You're taking it out of context (as does most anyone on the internet when talking about philosophy stuff)

Which is the issue with a lot of philosophical euristics, and argumentative standards. I taught first year philosophy to undergraduates. The vast majority of them... are terrible at it because they misunderstand the context in which their tools we teach them are to be applied... which is philosophy class. A great example is that in philosophy we don't accept arguments from authority... but in law and legal scholarship arguments from authority are a huge part of the discourse. Two difference fields, two difference standards. Bringing one into the other makes your arguments bad/irrelevant and doing so makes you an asshole if you do it deliberately, and a fool if you do it ignorantly.

But on the internet lots of people take the 'i have a hammer and everything is my nail' approach. I could tell you a story about my cat, and you might ask me to cite my sources on that, and claim my story about my cat is wrong/bad because it's not sourced. Or you personally attack me and my cat, because you think all grey cats are evil and anyone who has one is evil. etc. etc. You might do this out of malicious bad faith, or you just might be an idiot, or both.

But to put it another way, any good moderated discussion must be necessarily censored. I'm not going to accept personal stories about cats in my philosophy class, because it's not about that. But if I gointo cat subreddit and start arguing with people about their poor argumentation in talking about their cats, i should probably be booted from the cat subreddit. the cat subreddit isn't a place to philosophically debate other cat owners about the truth of the mental states of their cats that they are discussing. Applying my standards and expectations of philosophical argument would be absurd and ridiculous, just as it would for me to start going around citing local bylaws at them about how they are violating said laws.

But on internet... people are doing this shit all the time. Maybe out of pettiness, maybe to troll, maybe because they are just morons who don't understand the concept of context or the situational.

and frankly a lot of stuff happens via the drive by effect. people stumble onto something and all the sudden it gets viral and gets flooded and taken out of context. happened to lots of small niche subs that hit the front page back in the day.