MeanwhileOnGrad
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
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Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
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You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
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I said they murdered and raped, you said that was "debunked"
Were you lying then, or are you lying now?
Your "gotcha" questioning isn't the own you think.
You blundered, by uncritically parroting Israeli propaganda used to justify Israel's atrocities.
Instead you should learn about the serious problems with the Israeli narrative. and then reevaluate your own perspective. Until then, your discussing the subject is not productive.
To people not dwelling in a rabbit hole of Zionist propaganda, my characterization is not misleading.
If someone says a Tale of Two Cities is fiction, are they lying because Old Bailey and the Bastille are real?
Just looking to know which time you were lying. Simple question.
I didn't parrot anything. Sorry you think "rape and murder is bad" requires some kind of propaganda to believe.
Says a lot about how you get your talking points though.
There's your problem. You're trying to discuss complex political issues with massively absurd oversimplifications.
I answered your question. If you don't accept the answer, that's on you.
Something is either debunked, or it isn't. That's simply not a complex issue.
Says a lot that you won't give a straight answer though. Or use concise language about anything.
Because if you did, you'd have to decide whether to go with:
I wonder which it is.
The actual events, and ascertaining them reliably, obviously are very complicated.
The simplest way to address your question is still relatively simple, but less simple than you pretend.
The question you insist is simple conflates two different things. One is the fact of fatalities occurring during conflict, and the other is the Israeli narrative as parroted uncritically.
One is accepted fact, which no one contests, and one is debunked propaganda.
You should be adequately thoughtful and sincere to acknowledge the distinction.
You should stop wondering, and start acknowledging that you have constructed a rather absurd false dichotomy.
It says a lot about you that I addressed your question directly and appropriately, several times now in succession, yet you still act too dense to understand.
Tell me what words I used that misaligns with accepted fact then. Why can't you do it? Prove you can be direct.
What is it you want to prove for yourself?
You seem to be searching for some straightforward and unambiguous proof that you are right, whereas I consider it completely right that you were called out for acting as a mouthpiece of Israel and Zionism.
It would be best for you to let go of your need for the world to be explained in terms that are black and while.
At least one thing really is simple, though. If you want not to be called a mouthpiece of Israel, then you should stop acting as one.
Tell me what words I used that misaligns with accepted fact then.
You're falsely accusing me of something. Prove it, liar.
You said I stated something untrue. Quote it.
Respecting the October 7 attacks, limited details are reliably known.
It is known that both Hamas and Israeli combatants perpetrated attacks, and it is known that many people were killed, including many Israelis.
It is known that Hamas taking hostages was planned as a important component of the mission, and that it was successful.
The claims of sexual assault have now been almost completely dismissed, many as completely lacking credibility, others as not supported adequately by evidence. Israel's dishonest and obstructive conduct has obscured the truth, probably irredeemably.
Even generously accepting some of the evidence offered for sexual assault, it would remain unknown whether such acts were spontaneous choices by individuals, or ordered by higher tiers of command.
Furthermore, it is unknown how many of the Israelis who were killed died as a consequence of Israeli fire.
Regardless of your sense of intention, I feel it is right that you were called out for acting as mouthpiece of Israel and Zionism.
You said I stated something untrue. Quote it.
Or admit that you lied when you said it.
You know what you wrote. Stop being obstinate.
I stand by my characterizations, regarding the allegations you repeated, as well as regarding issues more personal.
The truth is we don't know what happened, and you find it hard to accept a world with uncertainty and nuance.
You find it hard to accept that there is not always a clear path to proving yourself right and proving someone else wrong.
Yup, exactly. I know exactly what I wrote which is why I can be so confident that I caught you in a lie.
Quote it.
Oh I also forgot to add kidnapping and murdering babies to the list of things you sick fucks like for some reason.
You're an insufferable child, completely irresponsible and locked in narrow loops of self importance.
The discussion now completely lacks any chance of becoming constructive.
You can take your animosity elsewhere.
Look how hostile you have to get because you simply cannot quote the thing you so obviously lied about.
Disgusting that you just blatantly lie and gaslight like this. Is that your form of imperfect resistance?