The part that's worth talking about, to me, is how creators and their audience can occasionally be on such different pages. What happens to the creative process to make that happen? Is it indicative of a deeper ill with the industry?

HBO is known for taking big swings and they used to depend on the fact that it didn't matter how many of their shows sucked because eventually they'd make a GoT or The Wire, so it's not weird to see one of their shows suck or be amazing... but it's certainly memorable when they make one that does both.

[–] forrgott@lemmy.zip 4 points 23 hours ago

but it's certainly memorable when they make one that does both.

I don't know. Hollywood, in it's entirety, sucks and amazes to the max. Like... that's literally their thing.

[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

HBO could kind of do that because they were THE premium channel and how a significant chunk of the US market actually watched movies.

Even by GOT? E'RYBODY was showing titties. Hell, I want to say AMC even was getting to push the envelope a bit? And Starz were outright hanging dong more often than not at that point (I will die on the hill that Spartacus was better written, better acted, and respected the audience more). And it was similarly around the time people were on to their bullshit (see SNL's "It's not Porn, it's HBO" skit).

And with Netflix and Amazon both spinning up their own studios? It isn't a surprise HBO reached the point that its branding was taken off the streaming service.

[–] yakko@feddit.uk 2 points 14 hours ago

They've lost their niche in recent years, it's true. Another casualty of "progress" just like episodic TV. Nowadays every showrunner thinks they can tell us "don't worry, it gets good in an hour or two of screen time", and as long as it's captured the spotlight by the season finale, they've still got a job. Time wasters!

[–] U7826391786239@lemmy.zip 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i think the "creators," i.e. owners, producers, shareholders don't really care either. deliver the product, that's it. obviously quality doesn't matter, because if it did, then the quality wouldn't be absolute dogshit. but here we are, talking about it, which is really the end goal, isn't it? keep people talking about it. and i didn't even watch the damn thing. mission accomplished!

[–] yakko@feddit.uk 1 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

If you're not having fun talking about it, nobody's making you... But, you can make your own decisions.

There's always that tension between creatives (artists) and the profit motive. It's true for show runners, just as it is for small Etsy artists. Part of the artistry is pretending one wants to do what must be done, in order to recover a sense of genuine expression without losing the means to continue. Maybe that's the difference between amateurs and professionals. A good showrunner must humble themselves in both directions at once - to the suits, and to their audience - and even then they will fail, unless they can convince us that's what they wanted to do all along.

When mistakes are made and you lose your audience, it is all too easy to blame them for not liking it. A good comedian doesn't argue with a crowd that isn't laughing, obviously the only opinion that matters is theirs. You dig yourself out of that hole by admitting it and moving on. That's what's unprofessional (in the sense stated earlier) of the GoT team - not to take any criticism onboard. It will only limit their future creative to have that mindset. That's the part that matters, who cares if it was profitable to the suits?