this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2025
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9/10 times, there's your problem right there... (infosec.pub)
submitted 6 days ago by MyBrainHurts@piefed.ca to c/memes@lemmy.world
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Remembering to look for and ignore folks with that telltale indicator has made the fediverse so much more enjoyable.

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[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Yes, they have largely stopped doing it, which is good.

No, it's not good that it's happening somewhere else. I haven't heard about that at all. Maybe we should make it an issue so they stop too???

This is not a zero sum game. I don't care what France is doing when I'm talking about China or vice versa, I just want less bad things in the world

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

This person isn't engaging in good faith - they present as though they have engaged with a wide range of sources, but they extremely clearly have not (if the blatant whattaboutism didn't tip you off already). They don't source the controversial claims, either.

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 2 points 3 days ago

I was just giving them enough rope to hang themselves with honestly

My positions are real... Cultural genocide is bad, and we should stop it from happening if we can

Is the thing in France happening? Probably not, but if it was I'd want it to stop

That's the benefit of having real beliefs. When they start dancing around and mudding the waters, you can ignore all that and assert your beliefs proudly

Unfortunately, it also works if you believe in bad things, but luckily tankies (can't believe they're self admitted, that's so rare) have to pretend they believe in good things

[–] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com -1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I haven't heard about that at all

That's the entire point of why tankies like me bring up such topics. When Europeans insist in the "superiority and democratic rule" of Europe vs. say China, it's because we remain oblivious to the sins of our own countries while we're constantly bombarded with propaganda against socialist projects. You can get started with the Wikipedia article on Occitan Language if you're interested.

I don't care what France is doing when I'm talking about China

Thats the entire point. There is immense propaganda about China while we literally don't know what happens in the neighboring country. If there were an equal amount of contributions in .world about repression of Occitan as there is about China, I would make it less of a point to bring it up constantly. It's not deviating, it's not letting anti-China discourse dominate in the platform

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No, that's whataboutism.

When we're talking about China, I don't need info on the horrors America has inflicted on the world. Just like when I talk about America's past, I don't compare it to Canadian history

Advocate for good things and against bad things. Don't interrupt people already doing that

[–] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

"Allow western anticommunist propaganda to become the only political content in a political forum and to be severely overrepresented vs. the actual damage done by the west, or else you're a whataboutism"

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No, you fucking organize. Do you think a platform comes for free?

You have to work for it. If you actually cared for the cause, and weren't bullshitting, you'd put in the work

[–] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com -2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Are you aware that the programmers behind Lemmy are Marxists? I don't personally like Dessalines because of transphobe comments, but you can't avoid the fact that this fucking platform itself is made by Marxists.

As for putting in the work, what do you think I'm doing in commenting here?

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 1 points 3 days ago

You're just doing a whataboutism

This is the wrong place to put in work, we're already working over here and you're not helping.

Go find somewhere people aren't already talking about a genocide, go build unrelated threads about it. Go find someone talking about France

You're acting like that Republicans right now... No, we don't want to protect Bill Clinton from the Epstein files, stop bringing him up. We're talking about Trump right now

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

In the early 1900s, the French government attempted to restrict the use and teaching of many minority languages, including Occitan, in public schools. While the laws have since changed, with bilingual education returning for regions with unique languages in 1993, the many years of restrictions had already caused serious decline in the number of Occitan speakers. (via wikipedia)

It seems rather dishonest to conflate the attention given to the oppression of current minority groups with that given to the oppression of minority groups that hit it's peak around a hundred years ago (and arguably started in the 16th centry).

There's been decades of effort to preserve the culture already, improve the cultural situation for Occitan speakers and there are active efforts to improve the treatment of minority languages and culture in general in France:

Is there anything we can do to slow or stop this decline? Well, some things are already being done: conversation classes such as Café Oc allow locals to immerse themselves in Occitan in Southern France, and in Toulouse, bilingual street signs and metro train announcements are reminders of the area’s linguistic heritage. Though these efforts are certainly to be admired, the stark reality remains that the language is mostly spoken by older populations and is facing a continued decline over the coming years. The only real long-term solution to keep it alive is to encourage its uptake by the next generation, and as such, the existence of Calandretas - schools where Occitan is a medium of instruction alongside French - is a step in the right direction. Unless drastic action is taken to protect this fascinating and historic language, not only do we risk losing the language itself, but also an entire universe of rich cultural and literary beauty which, until only a few centuries ago, was one of the dominant forms of culture and discourse in Western Europe. (article from 2021)

I don't think a single person isn't aware that France was staggeringly racist in the early 1900s - for good or ill, nobody is going to argue it wasnt. They've made huge strides on this specific topic, however, and while they can do better, the reason people are unaware is that it's lost in the miasma of horror that was French Colonialism in the era that suppression of Occitan and related minority languages was at its it's height - it's rather restrained for that time period, if we're being honest.

[–] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com -1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

You've done some wonderful cherrypicking. That section of the article links to the Vergonha article:

France has also continuously refused to ratify the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, and native non-French languages in France continue to be denied official recognition, with Occitans, Basques, Corsicans, Catalans, Flemings, Bretons, Alsatians, Savoyards and other langues d'oïl speakers still having no explicit legal right to conduct public affairs in their regional languages within their home lands

Compare that with Uyghur:

The Uyghurs are one of the 56 recognized ethnic groups in China and Uyghur is one of the two linguae francae of Xinjiang, along with Standard Chinese. As a result, Uyghur can be heard in most social domains in Xinjiang and also in schools, government and courts

Back to France:

In 1972, Georges Pompidou, the President of France and a native of an Occitan-speaking region, declared that "there is no room for regional languages in a France whose fate is to mark Europe with its seal".

In 1992, after some questioned the unconstitutional segregation of minority languages in France, Art. II of the 1958 French Constitution was revised so that "the language of the Republic is French" (la langue de la République est le français). This was achieved only months before the Council of Europe passed the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, which Jacques Chirac ignored despite Lionel Jospin's plea for the Constitutional Council to amend Art. II and include all vernacular languages spoken on French soil. Yet again, non-French languages in France were denied official recognition and deemed too dangerous for the unity of the country, and Occitans, Basques, Corsicans, Catalans, Flemings, Bretons, Alsatians, Nissarts, and Savoyards have still no explicit legal right to conduct public affairs in their regional languages within their home lands. The text was again refused by majority deputies on 18 January 2008, after the Académie française voiced their absolute disapproval of regional languages, the recognition of which they perceive as "an attack on French national identity".

On 27 October 2015, the Senate rejected a bill for the ratification of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, preventing the adoption of a constitutional reform that would have given a degree of official status to regional languages such as Occitan.[39] On 8 April 2021, the Breton MP Paul Molac tried to pass a law to protect minority languages, and this law was passed by the French Parliament in Paris.[40] However, the French Minister of Education, opposed to the teaching in minority languages, asked the Conseil Constitutionnel to declare it unconstitutional. This led to the law being constitutionally struck down on 21 May 2021

The use of regional languages in local governments is still severely contested. In 2022, some local councils in the traditionally Catalan-speaking department of the Pyrénées-Orientales, such as Elne, passed a modification of their statutes to allow the intervention in Catalan language by their elected members, as long as they provide an exact oral translation in French, as well a written French translation of the session.[42] Despite being considered a symbolic gesture, the prefect of the Department, arguing that the political rights of French speakers will be violated, appealed to justice to repeal these initiatives. In April 2023, the Administrative Court of Montpellier sided with the Prefect, thus declaring illegal the decisions of the local councils.

Regarding the segment where you quote "bilingual education" the article on said schools numbers:

A total of 62 such primary schools existed as of 2016, as well as four high schools, teaching 3,614 students in total

Tell me again how much worse Uyghur language is being treated than Occitan. For reference, there are about 13 million native speakers of Uyghur and there are 12 million ethnic Uyghur in China, meaning literally almost all of them speak it. There has clearly been a prolonged effort to maintain the language.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Tell me again how much worse Uyghur language is being treated than Occitan.

I never claimed that? Nor spoke to it? Please don't try and misrepresent my comment as being at all a statement on the relative conditions of the treatment of the two groups - you've established you refuse to accept critical media on that topic so I didn't even try - because it's entirely about why the topic does not recieve the same amount of attention online as other contemporary topics.

This is why you can claim my quotes were cherrypicked - since they're not about the topic you present, they're obviously not going to be a comprehensive representation of that topic.

(edit: clarity)