this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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Sure. You realize how bad trump is, way worse than even Hillary. But it's Americans that voted for trump over Hillary. It's the stupidity of Americans that you should be blaming.
It's so funny how far people go to try to absolve themselves of responsibility.
I feel like you’re looking for a fight, but I don’t disagree. I blame the idiocy and myopicism of my countrymen, too.
Americans in very specific swing states in manipulated elections voted for Trump. Hilary actually won that election by several million votes. The USA is not a democracy and blaming voters is really a pathetic and wrong understanding of politics.
Ah yes, when it's Russia then every Russian should suffer for not overthrowing Putin. But when it's the US, Hillary actually won and “it wasn't me” anyway, and blaming voters is pathetic.
Blaming voters for not voting the right way is in fact pathetic, because their elections are fake. They couldn't have voted differently because their votes don't matter. I blame Americans but not for the reasons they were suggesting. I absolutely think that people in the US shouldn't bother to vote and should instead destroy their fake democracy and settler colony. The USA is worse than Russia in every way. It is in fact the US who over threw the Russian government and installed Putin, it is amazing how they think it is the other way around
So she should have shifter further right to try to capture the votes in those specific swing states?
Even if she moved right of Trump she would have lost, median voter theory is horseshit.
So she couldn't have won no matter what. You're saying she wasn't a bad candidate, I guess.
I am saying she could have won if she moved left and promised to improve the material conditions the people she was asking to vote for her.
Moving right does not earn democrats republican votes, it only decreases their own turnout.
How would that have made her win? Her policy, and the history of the Democratic Party in contrast to the republicans is that she would be better for the people. Better is better. It doesn't matter how much really. If people wanted better, they would already vote for her.
Her messaging was "America is already great", her policies were means-tested bullshit that anyone who's gone their entire life not getting help understood wouldn't apply to them. Hillary was the status quo candidate.
So you figure trump is better?
I am describing how electoral politics work. You have to promise to help the people whose votes you want and hurt their enemies. You can't run on "well you owe me your vote because tHiS iS tHe mOsT iMpOrTaNt eLeCtiOn oF oUr liVeS"
No. Ideally you should win a vote by presenting a good platform and showing the candidate to be a good leader - specifically by not dividing people and talking about enemies within the country. Talk about perspectives and differences in platforms and leadership track records. Being 'the most important' election is a good reason to tell people to really pay attention to the options and actually get out and vote. If Americans are too stupid to understand that, they deserve the orange moron they got and the long term damage it is doing to the country.
There are enemies within the country; every worker's interests are diametrically opposed to those of Jeff Bezos. A leader who pretends we're all on the same side is siding with capital. Billionaires like Bloomberg understand that, hence why he spent hundreds of millions trying to stop the candidate who wanted workers to have healthcare.
"The election is important election ever, for real, thats why you have to vote for a rightwing ghoul instead of a candidate who can actually win" has been going on since Nixon.
She was such a bad candidate that she personally couldn't win no matter how far to the right she went. She might have stood a better chance if she treated the left flank of the party like she actually needed their votes.
Why should she have to play games 'motivating' people who could see she was significantly better than trump? People didn't bother to vote against trump - so they got trump. They have no one to blame but themselves.
Because that's called politics. When you actually care more about winning than about making sure progressives lose, you try to get people to vote for you instead of regarding them with open contempt.
It seems like you are projecting this 'open contempt'. In an ideal democracy, a politician should state their platform and people should select the best one and vote.
She was clearly a better candidate with better policy than trump - and if people saw that they should have voted for her. Saying 'she didn't pander to me enough', or 'wasn't perfectly aligned with my ideals' is stupid in the face of trump as the other option.
Yes, she could have said a bunch of pings - she could have lied and attempted to get votes through a populist approach, and maybe that's what the democrats need to do, as sad as it is. But that's only because too many Americans are stupid and won't vote for the obviously better candidate for ... reasons.
You're gaslighting. No "it seems".
Politicians who are interested in beating their opponents try to appeal to the electorate they have, not the electorate you prefer. And I want to make it clear, the electorate centrists prefer is comprised entirely of netanyahu clones.
So you think trump is better on Israel/gaza policy?
No. It's why I voted for your shitty pro-genocide candidate instead of your very close second choice.
Why do centrists always pull that shit out like it means anything? Genocide is still wrong even when a democrat is supporting it. Even when it's your single favorite thing ever, which you've convinced me it is.
Why would you think I support genocide? And I'm much more of a leftist than a centrist. Democrats def not 'my party'. But of the two options that have a chance, clearly the democrats were/are a way better choice than the repubs. Not choosing the better of two options is just stupid.
Because your kneejerk reaction to my criticism of democrats' support for genocide was to call me a trumper.
And now you're trying to convince me to vote how I voted in an election that already happened. Because it's evidently a bridge too far for someone to say that genocide is bad without you letting them know how wrong you think opposing genocide is.
It's nothing to do with it. It's not about opposing Israel's actions being wrong. It's that both parties support Isreal blindly. And the gop, specifically trump, are significantly worse. So when voting, it makes no logical sense for that issue to factor against choosing democrats vs republicans.
Yes, this is in the past, but there are (hopefully) more elections in the future. It's very important that people get out and vote for the only viable alternative to the horrors that are the gop these days. People who didn't vote for democrats last cycle need to wake the fuck up, recognize that they are responsible for the current disaster, feel the guilt for what they did, and change.
It seems that you agree on that, since you voted dem last time, but you still are throwing shots about how democrats shouldn't be elected. And that's pragmatically dangerous.
It's about your personal opposition to anyone saying their actions are wrong.
The elections are fake so, no. The people in the US should force the issue of the abolishment of the electoral college and overturning the citizens united ruling by any means necessary
I guess we can simply keep losing elections until they educate the entire populace.
I mean, centrists prefer that to moving to the left.