this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2025
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[–] arctanthrope@lemmy.world 42 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

I've always believed that everyone should be able to have, for free, a permanent private living space of at least 80sqft, a reasonably comfortable bed, access to a toilet and shower and associated toiletries, clothing suitable for the weather, water and food (even if only some flavorless nutritional paste), and access to medical care both as-needed and on a regular basis. if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent, then so be it, for a society to provide any less is immoral

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

And think of the world we would create if this were the norm.

The majority of people everywhere are ambitious, industrious and want to be useful. So you'd end up with a world full of people doing creative things ... and entire groups of people doing creative, inventive and useful things together.

They'd figure out things like building space elevators, new industrial technologies, the cure for cancer (which would probably be redundant because everyone would automatically be able to afford to take care of their health), stabilize global warming, create alternate forms and sources of energy and begin the process of exploring space beyond our own system.

Instead, we have a world where a hundred people own all the wealth, a billion people who think they're wealthy but aren't and 7 billion people struggling to get by .... and all of them fighting to become king or queen of the world.

[–] skisnow@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The best argument for UBI isn’t that it’s an inherently decent thing to do, it’s that it would legitimately make the world better for rich people too.

[–] paperazzi@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

UBI would never work with rich people in the world. The unfettered American form of a capitalist system is incompatible with life because the rich will never stop trying to take ALL the money, better world be damned. The system must be changed first.

[–] cm0002 8 points 3 weeks ago

While I agree with the mindset, I share the same view, some of your details are kinda...barbaric

permanent private living space of at least 80sqft

That's the size where prison cells float around. Iirc there was a study done that concluded that for an average person to remain mentally healthy they need at least 3-400 sq ft per person. Allowances must be made for families and partners

even if only some flavorless nutritional paste

Shit, that's been widely considered to be cruel and unusual punishment for prisoners. There's a balance between "not even good enough for prisoners" and "Lobsters every night"

if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent

Yeaaa there's plenty of other ways to entice people to work or to aspire. You don't need to make people eat flavorless paste, just luxury material goods alone would be enough. Like a decent smartphone, games, attractions (amusement parks, circuses etc), electronics etc. Plus most people want to work anyways just to have something to do

If we enacted your plan as-is, the suicide rate would skyrocket lol

[–] the_q@lemmy.zip 6 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

I absolutely love your still very capitalist driven word choices and ideas. It really illustrates the depths the capitalist system influences. "Hey you're alive, but only deserve bare minimum treatment, an unreasonable amount of space and flavorless food paste! The good life is still only for those that aspire!"

[–] usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 weeks ago

Everyone deserves more, it's just that the whole things collapses if nobody does any of the things that make it happen. There needs to be a limit on those who are a "drain" on the system, and placing it at some sort of base-level dignity is a practical evil at least until such time where there is so much abundance it won't matter.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. If you want more than what you need, then it has to come from somewhere.

[–] arctanthrope@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

I'm sure there are better solutions if we assume we can dismantle and rebuild all of society any way we want, along with the attitudes of those who inhabit it, but I think it's worthwhile to consider how current systems could be improved

I'm not talking about my personal vision of utopia, I'm talking about the bare minimum of a society that can begin to be considered just, even in a very hollow sense

[–] paraphrand@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Capitalist Realism.

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca -1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Correct, the good life is only for those that put in work.
Shit ain't free.

[–] the_q@lemmy.zip 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What's your favorite flavor of boot?

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca -2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Ariat Rebars.
I wear them tho, don't eat them.
They're for something called a "Job". Don't worry if you've never heard of it.
It's where you trade your skills and work for goods and services, or vouchers for goods and services in the form of money. What's your favorite flavour of Valenki?

[–] the_q@lemmy.zip 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

How novel that you define worth through work. Some people just take the programming better than others. Just look at the US South; prideful slaves living in poverty working themselves to death.

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca -3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I didn't define worth at all. [Edit: not the worth of a person anyway..] Are you stroking out due to lack of producing any work?

[–] the_q@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

So your continued implication that I don't have a job therefore what I'm saying is irrelevant isn't a comment on my worth? Good to know.

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca -4 points 3 weeks ago

Lol what you're saying is irrelevant because your of shallow understanding and your immediate implication that one [licks a boot] if they point out said shallow understanding.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Except for people with generational wealth I guess huh?

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I was being facetious. Do you really not see that I was pointing out that your comment was wrong?

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Oh wow, hard to argue against that.

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Seems hard for a few of you to argue anything at all. Not one coherent message. Just sarcasm or insult, no substance.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Lol you literally made an Arrested Development joke, my guy

[–] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

And yet there's more in that than your comment it responds to.

[–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Imagine my shock when I checked how much 80 square feet are.

[–] arctanthrope@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

honestly seems wild to me that people are pushing back so hard on the idea of having at minimum a small bedroom, as opposed to a cot in a crowded bunk room, or one of those Japanese pod hotels. y'all never seen a college dorm room?

[–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Don't get me wrong, I like the ideas you're proposing. The 80 square feet is just a little behind the rest in my opinion. And the flavorless paste, but others mentioned it already. It's not necessarily bad to have these as guaranteed minimum, but at the same time we can easily set the bar higher.

[–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

In other words you want the homless to have a day pass from prison.

[–] Digit@lemmy.wtf 1 points 3 weeks ago

I’ve always believed that everyone should be able to have, for free, a permanent private living space of at least 80sqft, a reasonably comfortable bed, access to a toilet and shower and associated toiletries, clothing suitable for the weather, water and food (even if only some flavorless nutritional paste), and access to medical care both as-needed and on a regular basis. if you have no ambition in life beyond sitting in that little room staring at the wall and eating soylent, then so be it, for a society to provide any less is immoral

Since around 2004, getting really deep in some leisurely research rabbit holes, I've maintained the assertion that everybody should be able to have, for free, spaceships of their own, that are clean ZPE powered, can do zero-inertia propulsion (~ that's all the instant acceleration, instant stopping, high speed sharp angle turns, stuff ~), can sustain human life indefinitely, can print another of itself instantly, and safe enough for a 2 year old to fly home.

... And that we could have had spaceships for everybody since the 1930s, and it's not so wild if one simply follows the tech arc from Michael Faraday through to Nikola Tesla's time (stopping by things like the Sonora Aero Club from 1850 along the way), and you can see the early working prototypes of the technology before the wright brothers' first flight.

That, and, the abundant space on earth.

... Y'know we could increase the carrying capacity of earth to over 300 trillion, still with abundant spacious nature, with vast forest arcologyscapes. Much of the same tech that avails all space, helps us accomplish such constructive feats of better resource management on earth.

No cull necessary.

We have so much headroom, with proper resource management.

We have so much headroom, without the parasitic crooks keeping us down, just so they have "more". Blithering idiots in the psychopathic circlejerk, yet to evolve to realise they'd have even more yet, in availing abundance and emancipation. They'd not be living the stressful fear laden life, striving to keep us down, and keep us from turning on them for keeping us down. Do they have spaceships yet? And the reassurance no one is trying to take theirs because everybody has their own too?

Spaceships for everybody.

(I say that a lot. I mean it like it encapsulates everything you proposed we each should have, and more, to the very best of human innovation.)

[–] KAtieTot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

There is already free and public media access through libraries.