this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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Tired of your phone tracking you? Try a Google alternative (+ win a Volla Phone!) | Vivaldi Browser (vivaldi.com)
submitted 2 years ago by Zerush@lemmy.ml to c/vivaldi_browser@lemmy.ml
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[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 years ago (2 children)

FF a Google alternative? LOL, it was once in the past, before he made a contract with the devil, now every visit to Mozilla sends data to Alphabet, googletagmanager and googleanalytics. Did you know that there are Google devs working on FF in Mozilla, eg Ben Goodger? That Google is the main sponsor of Mozilla? Chromium is from Google, but it is also FOSS, and with this each company is free to gut it from Google APIs, which Vivaldi does, which also does not depend on external sponsors and even less on Google.

[–] reddthat@reddthat.com 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

It's not the browser's fault for sending data to Google tag manager... It's a website's fault.

At least with a non-chrome browser you can install uBlock and protect your self more than a chrome browser could.

Why take the chance?

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago

Vivaldi has an inbuild ad/trackerblocker, customizable, by default it uses uBO, ABP and DDG filters, in mine it blocks even Cookie advices and anti-adblock Pop-ups and some Paywalls.. Zero "Phone-home" to Google in the Browser, nor in the website, no Alphabet, googleanalytics or googletagmanager. European browser full GDPR compliant, made by an European employees-owned cooperative.

[–] N4CHEM@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Oh my god. So much wrong to unpack here... where to start?

  1. Don't compare Firefox to Google: one is a browser, the other is a company. Either Firefox vs. Google Chrome or Mozilla vs. Google
  2. "Chromium is from Google, but it is also FOSS". Firefox is also FOSS. The big difference is that Google pushes the development of Chromium and finally decides what features are added or removed: if your browser is based on Chromium, Google is making the important decisions on the browsing engine. This is not the case on Firefox-based browsers. Period. I guess you might have read about Google's new idea: "Web Environment Integrity", even Vivaldi thinks it's a very bad idea, calling it "a threat to the open web (that) should be pushed back".
  3. By using a Chromium based browser you are giving more power to Google. Google's browsing engine keeps gaining more and more market share. This gives Google the power to push "web standards" that are harmful to the open web, but since most browsers use Google's engine (like Vivaldi), most websites will adapt to Google's backwards standards. If you care for the open web and open standards, I really recommend to stay away from any Chromium-based browser. Doesn't need to be Firefox-based, but unfortunately there doesn't seems to be any alternative nowadays. It would be great to have other browsing engines to chose from.
  4. Yes, technically, one could take Chromium's source code and strip it of problematic features like "Web Environment Integrity". But doing this every time a new version is released is cumbersome and not efficient: no one will do that.
  5. If you carefully read my comment, I didn't specifically recommend Firefox (which is not bad option, in my opinion), but "a Firefox based browser". Same as Vivaldi is based on Chromium; Librewolf, Mull, Fennec... are based on Firefox, and are, in my opinion, better alternatives.
  6. I know that Google is the main sponsor of Mozilla, yes. Mozilla gets money to develop Firefox, Thunderbird and other projects, and in turn Firefox comes with Google as its default browsing engine. Just change it or, as I said, use a Firefox based browser, those usually come with a different default search engine. On top of this, the existence of Firefox is a good excuse for Google to avoid accusations of monopoly in the browser market (something that the existence of Vivaldi doesn't avoid), so Google also wins there. we know that.
  7. There are Google devs working on Firefox. OK, what are they doing? Are they influencing the browsing engine? Are they pushing harmful features like "Web Environment Integrity"? If any of those bad ideas are pushed, are they accepted? Again, Vivaldi uses a browsing engine designed by Google and they don't have a say in how that browsing engine is designed: the influence of Google is bigger.
  8. "Every visit to Mozilla sends data to..." I didn't ask you to visit Mozilla. Just don't visit their website? And anyway, I just tried https://www.mozilla.org/ and uBlock Origin reports that it connected to just 1 domain (mozilla.org). No 3rd party scripts nor 3rd party frames loaded). Where are your claims coming from?
[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

4 That is what Vivaldi devs do, because of this Vivaldi updates are some weeks behind Chromium updates, except if there are security patches. Another Example is EDGE, yes I know its a telemetry nightmare, but all go to MS and allied companies, nothing to Google.

Firefox is undoubtfoll one of the best Browsers out there, i use it as second Browser and also Otter with its own engine, both for certain tests because of different engines in some Websites, but the influence of Google is way bigger in Mozilla than in Vivaldi, because Mozilla depends on the subvencions from Google, not only to use the Google search by default, incommings are because of surveillance advertisings, most used in the USA, but not in the EU where it is banned. Depending on extern investors is always a contract with the devil, because this investors have the power to dictate the rules, resting the independence of the product.

The business model of Vivaldi is different. They include by default some links and search engines, which pay a commision only if the user use them, the search engines are mainly privacy oriented, DDG, Startpage, Ecosia, etc. If you want you can delete all of these also the default links. Also incommings from a Merchstrore and donations. Maybe also commisions from Vivaldi Automotion from Renault, Mercedes, VAG and Polestare because of including Vivaldi in their cars. As say, there are no extern investors, but clients which pay to use Vivaldi or if the user use their product. Not the same as Mozilla being a client of Google to gain incommings.

Anyway, currently the power of Google don't relay in Chromium, but in his huge amount of services it has and Webs which use his APIs and services. THAT is the real risk. The attempt to influence via Chromium (FloC, IdleAPI, some other telemetry and trackers in the past, all failed miserably, because they were all removed in most Chromium forks). This is why now trying to get this dominance through its services, with this WEI DRM crap, which forces ALL browsers to include a Google Token, in order to be able to access the pages, this affects all browsers equally, regardless of the engine they use, also Firefox and even EDGE and Apple's Safari.

For this reason, it no longer matters which browser you use, in fact we are all in the same boat and it is convenient to act together against this outrage. Well, if you need a certain privacy, there are not much options left, apart of FF with some forks and Vivaldi.