this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2025
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[–] Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca 12 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

To be fair, a lot of communist revolution did result in mass starvation.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

As a precursor, sure. The OG 1918 October Revolution was fueled by a string of famines, exacerbated by the World War.

The American Bonus Marchers of 1932 were also propelled by food shortages of The Dust Bowl.

But these events get vanishingly little coverage in western history textbooks

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Which communist revolution? Russia was having famines before the soviet revolution. Its more reasonable to say communism solved the famines in russia and created them in china.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 14 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

Eh the Soviets had plenty of their own man made famine (Holodomor, among others)

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 4 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)

Lysenkoism was the cause of both Soviet and Chinese non-war related famines, a grand tragedy only possible under an authoritarian fever dream.

Ignore the lessons of history if you want, it just makes you the villain of the next cycle.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 3 points 15 hours ago

I don't think I've ever up voted a comment of yours. But you are 100% on point about Lysenko. His promotion and the treatment of Vavilov are emblematic of a few of the many many flaws of Leninism. Vavilov was at least posthumously exonerated.Though he still died in a Siberian gulag for the crime of disagreeing with comrade Stalin, and sticking to the evidence.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -1 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

There was no one single cause, and trying to deflect blame onto a single (exceptionally whackdoodle) pseudoscientific theory is intellectually dishonest at best, and regular dishonest at worst.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

Funny, because it and the pre-industrial cyclical famines ended when his policies did.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

Man yeah, the fall of Lysenkoism is really the defining moment of mid-late 1940s soviet russia. Couldn't possibly have been any other factors which played into the shift in cultural attitudes within the soviet union at that time. Nope, must have been down to Lysenkoism itself falling out of favor.

~~Also it ended in the 60s and the last big soviet famine was in 47s so idk about that timeline~~

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

Yes, eventually the industrialization of Soviet farming paid off despite his nonsense.

Doesn't stop it from being the major cause (beyond deliberate genocidal policies) of the interwar famines. As you can provably see when it spread to Mao's newly formed Chinese state and, surprise, caused famines again when they didn't have the sheer output of an industrialized agrarianian sector to make up for it.

The Four Pests Campaign obviously didn't help in that regard but Lysenkoism was part and parcel of it, with Mao officially adopting it as state policy and Lysenkoism trained advisors setting specific policy goals.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

Sure, it was a pervasive piece of reasoning that existed in a system which would kill you if you tried to criticize the pseudoscience du jour. It had a large influence in soviet culture, yep, but it was absolutely not the sole driving force behind things like the Holodomor, or the other many famines.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

If you don't want to understand why a system that forced workers and scientists to lie about production numbers or get shot caused famines during industrial centralization and was the absolute worst thing to have happening concurrently with a direct causal link in two separate countries I can't make you.

[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

So your argument is that it wasn't just Lysenkoism, but the political situation at the time which exacerbated the faults of Lysenkoism and lead to conditions allowing for those famines?

Which has incidentally been my entire point this whole time?

^edit:^ ^clarity^

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 2 points 10 hours ago

Everything is contextual and interconnected, but it was Lysenkoism, only possible under authorianism, that broke the core structural principle of a central command economy.

Lysenkoism isn't a reference to the actions of Lysenko, it refers to the entire system of failures that created it.

Lysenko's politically derived pseudoscience that started with ideology instead of evidence combined with Stalinist/Maoist paranoia and conflation of scientific dissent with rebellion and threats to the state created the famines from what would have been shortages during the restructuring.

That is all (and more) described by the term.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

I wouldn't associate that with a revolution though. Similar to how the "Irish potato famine" was something the brits did to Ireland that's a thing the soviets did to their colonies, essentially and I would probably chalk it up to a type of colonialism

[–] leftist_lawyer@lemmy.today 0 points 14 hours ago

To be fair, fat cat capitalist hoarding wealth have caused exponentially more. Counted the homeless in your community lately. Year in, year out. They might be invisible to you ... but they are there. Millions of them -- year in, and year out. Starving. Homeless.