this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2025
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[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 5 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

Also, in a famine, it is grossly unfair to put all blame on a single leader/government. In USSR's case, during global famine, the US insisted debt be paid in food, and the government had to react to extortionist farmer class (Kulak) pricing. It is entirely political to create narrative of opponents fault for everything, when they are faced with hard decisions that your country imposed on them.

In this case, it is especially eggregious to not only force starvation by executive decision in times of relative abundance, but to further provide IRS directives that would collect less (minimum corporate tax rules) from oligarchs, so that budget/revenue is further reduced, and excuse to continue starving people becomes a manufactured crisis.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 10 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

USSR leadership absolutely used forced requisition (sometimes leaving nothing to the farmers) as a tool of power and control and to punish the farmers. The leadership in USSR was pretty vitriolic towards the agrarian population and treated them like shit at least until later in the Union's life.

[–] Socialism_Everyday@reddthat.com 1 points 3 minutes ago

USSR leadership absolutely used forced requisition

True

as a tool of power and control and to punish the farmers

Bullshit.

The rapid collectivization of 1929-1934 was a very difficult endeavour, and is the FIRST IN HISTORY successful collectivization of agriculture. There have been many attempts since before the Roman Empire, but never had it been carried our successfully before. Grain requisitions were carried out because the effort of rapid collectivization was kickstarted in order to rapidly industrialize the nation. By introducing tractors into farms and collectivizing them in larger plots, fewer peasants were needed, and people could move to cities to build up an industrial sector. Moving people to cities meant feeding people in cities, and grain requisitions were carried out initially in order to force wealthy exploiter peasants (kulaks) to sell their grain at state mandated prices. Had it not been for the rapid collectivization and industrialization of the 1930s, the Soviets would have been crushed by Nazism, and tens of millions of people more would have been exterminated as it happened in Poland, Belarus or Ukraine. Rapid collectivization wasn't an ideological decision, it was a pragmatic decision that averted the extermination of Eastern Europe at the hands of Nazism.

agrarian population and treated them like shit at least until later in the Union's life

This is again bullshit. The region has never before or after seen the level of expenditure in infrastructure, education or healthcare that took place in rural USSR. Since the disappearing of the USSR, many massive rural exodus have taken place all over the eastern block.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

AFAIU, there were 2 farmer classes in USSR at the time. Collectives getting fixed price for their crops, and Kulak private farmers getting market prices. Famine makes those prices extortionist, and USSR chose to fight extortion.

[–] RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz 2 points 6 hours ago

The farmers needed to buy stuff to keep the farm going and those prices had risen through the roof too. And the state sent in goons to requisition everything, leaving the farmers to starve. Sometimes burning the farms and killing the farmers just on the suspicion of not handing over everything. Real fucked up shit

The state just exacerbated the whole situation and using this opportunity to bolster their power instead of focusing on addressing the famine situation. Attacking and intimidating the farmers just made the situation worse.

[–] yeather@lemmy.ca 5 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

I cannot find a single source about US insisting debt payments be made in food. Most of the kulaks were also imprisoned or deported in the late 1920’s during collectivization. The USSR in the early years had targeted food shortages in Ukraine and the Caucuses to starve the population into submission. There was later a union wide food shortage because Stalin increased the export of wheat without adequately increasing production.

[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 3 points 17 hours ago

Also Stalin's promotion of Trofim Lysenko and his crackpot ideas on agriculture that mirrored the crackpot ideas of Leninism. Exacerbating famines and helping to kill millions.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 14 hours ago

The wikipedia article (holomodor), unless it's been nazi washed recently, has/had all the points I made even if it's balanced to "always hate Stalin". I don't know what caused Stalin to not repay US debt (explains food exports), but that too would have led to complaints about his handling of famine. Holomodor is a Ukrainian word, and its enthusiastic eastern cooperation with nazi Germany, including administrating extermination camps, colours its history/politics to this day. Still, they had fewer famine deaths than other parts of the USSR.

Recently, famine/drought in Syria was a great opportunity for the empire and its Al Quaeda and ISIS proxies to rise up and eventually overthrow the long time leader. It is not in demonic evil scum's nature to assist people's survival through cooperation with their government, if a narrative gives them more control over the world.