this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2025
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Or, you could do what is somewhat common for a home defense load out, which would be to load a shell or two or three of either bird shot or rock salt, then move up to buck shot for shots 4 5 6 7.
Less likely to kill somebody, less like to over penetrate walls and wound or kill your family members or roommates or the guy in the next apartment.
Hooray for US residential construction standards.
Rock salt does NOTHING. I've seen it tested and tried it myself. Hell, I've loaded small pebbles and they do nothing.
Besides, best to have a consistent load because you don't want variance in recoil between shots.
If you've got the shotgun out it's because it's too late for de-escalation.
In any situation where the shotgun is going to be used you're going to want the lead
... When... you say 'tested', do you mean like, shot a person or got shot yourself by a 12 gauge of rock salt, at say 10 to 25 feet?
I... kind of doubt you or a buddy just willingly shot the other with rock salt, but hey maybe I'm wrong.
I can see it being ineffective against someone in fairly thick / many layered clothing, but... the whole point of this concept is that you are escalating lethality levels as you go.
You do make a good point though that recoil will vary per shot, but, if you semi regularly train with all your rounds at least a bit, and drill with your own loadout, you'll know what to expect.
You can also have more shells on the buttstock or what not, you can fairly quickly just pump 3 times to get right to the buckshot.
Yeah, this is definitely a strategy with pros and cons, I'm not saying its 100% superior to any other home defense strat, just putting it out there.
Loaded some in a shell with black powder. Check Paul Harrell (RIP) testing it. He was a firearms expert of unparalleled experience, an instructor who any teacher of any stripe could learn from, no GunTuber bullshit, no "like and subscribe", not once. Anyway, watch the whole thing and you'll see what I mean about presentation skills. Even includes a control test! (He always did.)
Whole video, worth your 5 minutes
Skip to the hilarious non-results
I did NOT expect that!
After testing and viewing Paul's test, I'd make an educated guess that modern propellant would turn rock salt into pink smoke before it left the muzzle. 😆
And as with Paul's test, I found gravel (3-7mm or so) bounced off the target, slowly, and the wad did more damage. At least the wad left a dent in the old pallet. Pretty hilarious as it sounded like I threw the gravel. I wasn't as scientific as Paul, the black powder was homemade, closer range, can't give specifics. Think I started at 50 and went to 150 grains in the end? Used a 130-yo Remington, same barrel length it looks like?
Back to your comments, Paul has an excellent video that includes reasons not to vary your load out in the same tube. Recoil was one issue, but I believe there were one or two others? Here he testing bird shot for home defense. Not sure that's the one I wanted, excellent video in any case. In the confines of my tiny house, birdshot's not expanding but a couple or three inches, like a tiny lead volcano. And of course barrel length and load makes a HUGE difference in velocity and spread. Impossible to make a blanket statement.
Still, I just can't trust the penetration after putting 1,000 rounds into various targets. As to over penetration, if I'm scared enough to actually unload on someone coming into my home, I want the lethality of 00-buck, and as you can see in that video, I'm not worried about pellets making it through my exterior wall, across the street, through another exterior wall and still having any energy. And as Paul said about rock salt, you still fired a shotgun at someone. "It was only bird shot." would be an awful legal defense.
And YES! I'm a huge fan of extra shells on the stock. I want to grab my shotgun and roll with it. Like when my wife yelled at our camp, "Come quick and bring a gun!" (It was just a stupid water moccasin sunning himself. "No, I'm not shooting him." 🙄)
Allow me to shill for Kvander Leather! Polish outfit, top quality, won't even look at another vendor, probably have 7 of these. 20-gauge means 20-gauge, not 12. Left-handed? No problem.
And if you want to talk the uses of single-shot shotguns, I can go all night! Thanks for reading all that, assuming you did. :)
Well, shit, you actually did test it, and you have "the one good Fudd" here as your example, may he rest in peace.
You don't gotta upsell Paul to me, I still miss him... he was an old school dude doing guntube, but ... not a guntuber, if that make any sense.
His whole approach was more 'punchy educational video from the 80s', not... whatever the fuck most of guntubers do.
Anyway, you bring up good points, I'd not seen this video before, happy to learn that rock salt is actually less effective than I thought it was, probably at anything under basically point blank range.
That being said... what about a salt and pepper round, lol? Birdshot and rocksalt?
Hahaha!
That or just switch one notch up from all salt to all pepper, birdshot.
But yeah, the whole... escalating lethality of response loadout does seem to losing popularity, but, I also did present it as a way to minimize the ability of a shotgun to be a uh, gore painting device.
Lets see, also also, Dick Cheney shot his hunting buddy in the face with birdshot... and the buddy he shot apologized to him.
Yep, no lesson I'm attempting to learn from that, just uh... that happened, but it actually did.
I'll have to check out Kvander!
EDIT:
hey here's a home defense load out;
dual wield two taurus judges, lol.
I suspected I was preaching to the choir regarding Paul's work. Hopefully others will see our comments and catch on.
Maybe that's why I loved him! And yeah, none of the bullshit we see from others. Even my favorites don't compare, all hype and production value. I actually cried when Paul died. Never cried over any sort of celebrity, not once. Paul's death hit because we lost so much future education, no one replaces him. I can cry right now watching his video, "If you're watching this, I'm dead. Thanks for the support, it's been my honor." Saw that after work one night and the bottom dropped out. "Well. I owe the man the viewing."
I'm no hunter, but as I understand the Cheney thing, it's normal in that type of bird hunting for the designated shooter to pop up while everyone else stays low. After all, the shooter has to swing around! Lawyer buddy did not stay low, spazzed out and popped up, hence the apology. Still pretty funny having Darth Vader, with his robotic heart, shoot someone and getting, "Sorry. My bad." 😆 "Apology accepted Mr. Whittington."
When I first got into shooting I thought the Judge was awesome! Got a Bond Arms derringer that does .45LC and 410. Solid engineering, worst gun I've ever bought. Bird shot hits the 1/2" of rifling, pinwheels. I didn't land but 2 pellets on a 2x3' target at 15'. Thought I was losing my mind, missed really badly. Tried again. Same. And the barrel's so short, velocity so low, I bounced a .45LC of an old pallet at 25'! Then I found out my nephew has a Judge he counts on for home defense. "Oh me son! Say it ain't so!"
Speaking of, Paul tried really hard not to bag on the Judge. Man must have been choking back expletives trying to make a case for it. :) "For some people, in some situations, the Judge might be the right... CUT! I can't do this."
No no, alternate 00 buck and slug, 3" magnum. Slug in case they chose to wear a vest. Probably will stop a slug, but they'll tap out. Neither will over penetrate much.
Well I guess this is the most appropriate possible thread for your username to comment in lol, but uh...
What?
This is a joke, right?
I was trying to explain how to maybe not get covered in as much gore, your loadout here is like, something designed for a PMC in Tarkov, are you expecting a Bulldozer from PayDay to try to break in and steal your TV?
Are we talking home defense in a typical American suburb or apartment, or are we going door to door in Fallujah, with a limited but existant capacity to engage at up to maybe 75 meters, and also a capacity to blow apart door frame hinges and locks/handles?
Rock salt and slugs are both suggestions that instantly let me know the person making the suggestion isn't knowledgeable.
Neither of those two are popular home def rounds because they're impractical/gimmicky.
Slugs won't make people more dead than buckshot but they will make you deaf as shit and fly straight through drywall when you miss.
As for rocksalt, if you intend to shoot someone as a warning/de-escalation then you shouldn't own a gun.
Rocksalt is just brandishing with extra steps and theatrics.
as a non-gun owner from Canada, my assumption was that the salt shot was for being non-lethal but the intruder doesn't know that. they just know they're being shot at by a fucking shotgun and want to gtfo.
then lethal rounds to follow up if they don't
Rocksalt had dogshit ballistic performance because A: it's not dense enough to carry it's momentum through the air and B: the "rocks" disintegrate during acceleration in the barrel. It's literally dust when it leaves the barrel.
Unless they're practically sucking on the muzzle it's not going to do anything more than sand in the wind.
Also putting salt in your barrel is super bad for it. You cannot regularly practice with these rounds without insane levels of effort via incessant cleaning.
More importantly though, there's a reason tazers and pepper spray don't look like guns. Pulling a gun out inherently brings things into a life or death situation because the assailant can't know it's less lethal.
If they have a gun they're just going to shoot at you without knowing your good intentions.
It doesn't make sense to escalate things just to use a lower escalation tool.
Warning shots are similarly bad while also giving away your position and ruining your first shot advantage. The first shot you take will be the most accurate, don't waste it.
Rocksalt and slugs are bait because they appear fantastic on paper but with any actual experience it's immediately apparent why these are not in widespread use.
I hope I'm not being preachy to you because it's totally understandable to have those beliefs. They're commonly repeated and without hands on experience they're ostensibly the most optimal.
not preachy at all, in fact I appreciate the factual presentation instead of it all.
fwiw, I'm not making any claim that the non-lethal first shot is a good way to go. only that I could see somebody thinking that scaring someone off without having to deal with the legal fallout of killing/maiming them is a good idea. was trying to discern somebody else's intentions, not propose a plan myself.
Why do you have a 12 gauge at all if this isn't your loadout? I mean the second shotgun can have rock salt and bird bombs but I want to be ready for whatever comes through the door, window, or roof.
... Some people just have a single gun?
But ok then, so, you're not worried about overpenning a much more likely, much less armored target, and aren't concerned with the concept of deterring an attacker, you're just concerned with ending them, got it.
Only one gun and it is a 590? Yikes