this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2025
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[–] undefinedValue@programming.dev -2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

It sounds like a lot of people had issues with you for imposing your beliefs and limitations on a child who was too young to consent.

Malnutrition is a very real risk for someone who doesn’t consume meat. It’s very hard to eat enough protein, especially for a growing child. That makes malnutrition a very real risk- your child may not grow as strong or as tall or as healthy as they may have without your restrictions.

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

HAHAHA, jesus dude. No, all of that is wrong.

Malnutrition is not a risk, vegan's have less deficiencies on average.

Vegans grow up stronger, taller, and healthier.

Carnists imposing their beliefs on kids and making them eat animals causes tangible negative health outcomes, accelerates the destruction of our planet, is and is ethically vile.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Malnutrition is not a risk

yes, it is

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I’m not the one that made the claim, so the burden of proof is on you.

Plenty of studies and evidence in this thread alone that show you’re wrong.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I gave exactly as much support for my claim as you did for yours.

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

lol, no source then. Just talking mince? You were the one that made the original claim, not be. Burden of proof is on you, coward.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

calling me names won't change the fact that you haven't supported your claim, and I have supported by claim exactly as much.

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You made the claim halfwit. I responded to you. Crying about being called out won’t change that.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

more name-calling but no ability to see that you made a claim first, and I refuted it using evidence just as strong as that you presented

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No I didn’t? I’m not the person you originally responded to.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago
[–] kossa@feddit.org 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Well, I mean, first of all it is my job as a parent to "impose my beliefs and limitations" onto my child. We pretend it's not, but it is in everything I tell my children.

And then

Malnutrition is a very real risk for someone who doesn’t consume meat

No, it's not. It can be for vegans. But just not eating meat (aka vegetarian) has no malnutrition risk.

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

No, it's not. It can be for vegans. But just not eating meat (aka vegetarian) has no malnutrition risk.

No, it's not. There is no malnutrition risk from avoiding meat.

[–] kossa@feddit.org 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's...that's exactly what I wrote there?!

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Apologies. Meant there is no risk from avoiding animal products.

[–] kossa@feddit.org 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Depends on which diet you come from. For having a "standard, western, unhealthy diet" changing nothing but avoiding meat: you have no challenges.

When you take the same diet and substitute all animal products, you could run into issues. Depends on where you're coming from with your previous diet. Especially true for growing children. But it's certainly doable, but more effort then just vegetarian.

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

What issues?

Vegan milks, meats, etc are fortified with everything hard to get and most macro levels are naive and based on studies performed on the general population/omnivores. It’s actually harder as a vegetarian as you don’t get the metabolic pathway benefits like the improved omega6 conversion. This is why you don’t get actual negative outcomes shown for low levels of certain nutrients in vegans.

It’s effortless unless you’ve got a selective eating disorder. Just chuck some flax and nooch in sauces and you’re good to go.

[–] kossa@feddit.org 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

My point is just that.

Vegetarian: do everything the same, just don't put meat in your dishes

Vegan: your whole paragraph.

You need to find substitutes for milk to benefit of the additives and need to try out. Took me a long time to find a milk substitute I like. Soy based stuff can cover for Calcium, but soy based stuff is rare in a lot of western diets, so you need to experiment.

That's my whole point. Certainly it is doable, but not as plug and play as a vegetarian diet. And, when you don't try the stuff mentioned in your paragraph and mine, you might run into issues, especially with children. That's what I am saying, that's a subjunctive.

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 days ago

I mean it was like one sentence hardly challenging? I’ve been vegan for over a decade and been round most of the west, where doesn’t have a ton of plant milks? The only struggle is out of comfort.

Just going veggie and cutting out a major source of your nutrients without considering a replacement is far more dangerous than simply switching to readily available vegan alternatives.

[–] undefinedValue@programming.dev -2 points 4 days ago (3 children)

One might argue your job is to do what’s best for the child despite your beliefs.

And sure, the risks are lower for vegetarians but you’re still depriving a young child in your care of nutrition because of something you chose for yourself.

You seem to equate your diet with religion or some other deep rooted belief that you feel obligated to pass down. While the people who heard you were forcing this upon a child were thinking it’s more like choosing to smoke or drink heavily. Those two camps aren’t going to find common ground.

[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

You seem to equate your diet with religion or some other deep rooted belief that you feel obligated to pass down.

If anything, passing down ethical beliefs about what is ok to consume and support with your money is more valid to pass down than 2000 year old fairy tales about who should be allowed to do what with their pee pee, not less.

[–] kossa@feddit.org 4 points 4 days ago (2 children)

One might argue your job is to do what’s best for the child despite your beliefs.

That's what I meant with pretend. What's best boils down to my beliefs, there is no objective criteria.

the risks are lower for vegetarians

No, there are simply no risks in not eating meat. There are risks in eating only potatos, but there's just as much in eating only bacon. The potential risks in vegetarian and carnivore diet come from not enough diversity. But take a "normal Western" diverse diet, strip out the meat, and you're perfectly fine in all macro- and micronutrients.

I'm not OP of this subthread btw. Nobody ever came at me for my children's diet. Which they honestly should, as we eat way to much pasta, but that's what's always accepted 😅

[–] brotundspiele@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago

Nobody ever came at me for my children's diet. Which they honestly should, as we eat way to much pasta, but that's what's always accepted 😅

That! Noone ever gets side eyed for taking their kids to McDonald's, which is the acme of malnutrition. But as soon as you don't serve meat to your kid every day, you get hassled by strangers. There are 35 million malnourished, mostly meat eating kids in the US, just by looking at the number of overweight children. But somehow the 1‰ of those who are vegan seem to be the issue.

Btw. I'm also not the OP of this thread, I'm not even vegan myself. But I get annoyed with these militant carnivores that pop up every time someone mentions veganism, just to spread FUD.

[–] Hadriscus@jlai.lu 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Hmmm, no, it's the same as eating meat. You pass it down to your children, yes? it's the exact same, and it presents no health risks whatsoever. No animal products on the other hand (=veganism) has to be carefully controlled for protein and B12 intake. And then it also presents no risks. But it's definitely more of a balance

[–] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

You do not need to worry about protein at all. It’s impossible to design an amino acid deficient diet with enough calories.

B12 requirements and recycling also drop in vegans and there’s no evidence lower levels lead to negative outcomes.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Ridiculously false. All dietary groups have risks of nutrient deficiencies that need to be taken into account. Every diet needs proper planning, or do you actually think the standard western dino nuggets, frozen fries, mac and cheese, and fast food burgers, that too many parents default to, doesn't pose a nutrient deficiency risk? From the linked systematic review:

We conclude that there are dietary inadequacies in all dietary groups. In people following self-selected plant-based diets, especially vegan diets, intake, and status of certain nutrients is lower compared to meat-containing diets, with an increased risk of inadequacy for vitamin B12, vitamin D, EPA, DHA, calcium, iron (particularly in women), zinc and iodine. Of these nutrients, also meat-eaters were found to be at risk of inadequate vitamin D and calcium intake. On the other hand, people following plant-based diets, particularly vegan diets, had higher intakes of PUFA, ALA, fiber, folate, vitamin E and magnesium, which were found to be at risk of inadequacy among meat-eaters. Additionally, the intake of vitamin B1, B6 and C was considerably higher, especially in vegans.

Our results show the need for additional public health strategies to help consumers transitioning to a more nutritionally balanced and sustainable diet by education on diverse nutrient-dense plant foods, food fortification and possibly supplementation.

And here are a collection of statements from leading nutrition authorities from several countries. Just one for example:

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.

Of any nutrient that vegans might be at risk of deficiency of, protein is virtually never one of them. It is entirely feasible, easy even, to get more than enough protein on a plant-based diet - even for people who do strength training. From Christopher Gardner, who specializes on the subject:

Does it matter if you get your protein by consuming plants or meat?

Gardner: In terms of meeting your protein requirement, it really doesn't. Protein contains the same 20 amino acids, regardless of where it comes from. It isn't the amount of protein consumed as much as the proportions of amino acids, which make up proteins, that matter most. Meat and animal products have amino acid proportions that align perfectly with human needs. Plants aren't aligned as perfectly, but they're really close - so much so that it doesn't matter if there isn't any meat in your diet. You can still get the needed proportions of amino acids from plants. A lot of people think that plants don't have enough total protein to meet human requirements. But the truth is vegetarians and vegans usually meet and exceed their protein requirement as long as they're eating a reasonable variety of foods.


Now let's talk about this idea of "imposing beliefs on your child." In the first place, what a ridiculous notion, every parent imposes their beliefs on their children. What's relevant is whose beliefs are better, which ones cause less harm. You speak of informed consent; then given how often children react with shock and sadness when they find out meat comes from animals, doesn't it make sense to at least wait until they're old enough to comprehend where their food comes from, and everything that happens to animals before feeding them products that come from animals? Would you feel comfortable showing your child a documentary like Dominion?

And going back to the point about health, I already established that plant-based diets are entirely adequate for all stages of life, including pregnancy and childhood. What about the typical western diets? Heart disease can start as early as the womb, and often does start as early as childhood. Plant-based diets generally don't have that problem.

As long as a parent is taking basic steps to enure adequate nutrition, vegan diets for kids are a great choice with lots of benefits. It's the typical western diet that is abusive.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics...

this is no longer their position

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com -2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

you should have quoted their true position, instead of an expired one then.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

It's really weird that it seems the overriding purpose for your account is to attack vegans. You also must be really desperate, to go so far out of your way to miss the point, seeing the trees for the forest. I chose that article because it contains policy positions from several health authorities, not just one. But sure, maybe it would have been better to quote the others if one of them is technically expired, despite the fact that they actually do support the same policies, just with different wordings and in different papers. But let's look at some of the others that were sourced, and you just completely ignored. From Dieticians of Canada:

Anyone can follow a vegan diet – from children to teens to older adults. It’s even healthy for pregnant or nursing mothers. A well-planned vegan diet is high in fibre, vitamins and antioxidants. Plus, it’s low in saturated fat and cholesterol. This healthy combination helps protect against chronic diseases.

Vegans have lower rates of heart disease, diabetes and certain types of cancer than non-vegans. Vegans also have lower blood pressure levels than both meat-eaters and vegetarians and are less likely to be overweight.

From the Association of UK Dieticians:

  • Carefully planned plant-based diets can support healthy living at every age and life stage
  • Plant-based diets can help to manage weight and may reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes and other chronic diseases
  • You can get all essential nutrients from plant foods but vegans need to ensure a reliable source of vitamin B12
  • If excluding dairy, make sure you consume other calcium-rich foods
  • Include a wide variety of plant-derived foods to ensure your diet is balanced and sustainable

From the UK NHS:

During pregnancy and when breastfeeding, if you follow a vegan diet you'll need to make sure you get enough vitamins and minerals for your child to develop healthily.

Find out more about a vegetarian and vegan diet while pregnant.

If you're bringing up your baby or child on a vegan diet, you need to ensure they get a wide variety of foods to provide the energy and vitamins they need for growth.

And I can go on with others. But you're probably already going out of your way for another bad faith argument. By attacking my comment on the grounds of that statement being "expired", you distracted from what is relevant and matters: are the claims true. And yes, they still are, and they will continue to be. Properly planned vegan diets are nutritionally adequate for all stages of life.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Properly planned vegan diets are nutritionally adequate for all stages of life.

if this were true, the AND would not have removed that claim from their latest position.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

And now you're just outright lying. They explain directly in the updated paper why they changed things around - something that was already addressed in one of the articles I linked you to. Either you didn't bother to read it, or as I said before, you are a liar.

This position paper addresses vegetarian dietary patterns in adults aged 18 years or older who are not pregnant or lactating. Facilitating vegetarian dietary patterns in individuals younger than age 18 years and/or for those pregnant or lactating requires specific guidance that considers how vegetarian dietary patterns may influence these crucial stages of growth and development and is outside the scope of this position paper. The target audience for this article is RDNs, NDTRs, and other health care practitioners.

Those topics are literally just outside the scope of that particular paper. There's nothing about the paper itself, or any other resource on any of their other websites to suggest it means they've changed their position. From their position paper on nutrition in child care:

Some children may also require dietary modifications for certain cultural or religious preferences, including vegetarian diets,4 which may also have added benefits. A recent study of one child-care center in South Carolina found that adding vegetarian meals to the menu improved the nutrient content of foods provided while keeping total energy, saturated fat, sodium, and cholesterol relatively low.

And from another of their articles, reviewed on June 5th 2024:

A well-planned vegetarian or vegan diet can meet the nutrient needs of people during all stages of life, including pregnancy, lactation and childhood, as well as for those who participate in competitive sports. It's just about making sure you get the nutrients you need. Fortified foods and beverages can help to increase the intake of certain nutrients. For nutrients that are primarily found in animal foods, like vitamin B12, or when nutrient requirements increase during certain life stages, a supplement may be needed. During pregnancy, for example, more iron is needed, but iron is not absorbed as well from plant-based sources. Pregnant individuals should eat plenty of iron-rich foods, plus a source of vitamin C to help increase absorption, and discuss the possible need for a supplement with their health care provider. Try these iron and vitamin C combinations: beans and salsa, broccoli and tofu, black-eyed peas and collard greens. For infants, children and adolescents, a well-planned vegetarian diet can promote normal growth. Calorie and nutrient needs typically can be fulfilled if the diet provides enough calories and diversity of foods. Incorporating fortified foods and beverages and/or supplements may be needed in order to get the recommended amount of certain nutrients. And while most competitive athletes require increased energy, protein and nutrient needs for optimal performance, there's no reason they can't get everything they need nutritionally from plant sources. All it takes is a little carefulness with menu planning.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They explain directly in the updated paper why they changed things around ... Those topics are literally just outside the scope of that particular paper.

but they weren't outside the scope of their previous position.

it's clear they are making a weaker claim.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No, they are not making a weaker claim at all, especially given they make the exact same claims on their other website I already linked to. You are seriously one of the most obnoxiously dishonest, bad faith actors I have ever come across. Get your head out of your ass.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

if you don't like intellectual honesty and scientific rigor, I'll be happy to help you find the block button

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There's nothing honest or rigorous about your commentary. You're clearly a troll, plain and simple. I'm just going to keep calling you out for being full of shit.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 23 hours ago

you're calling me names and ignoring the scientific guidance, and how it has changed. you're clearly intolerant to intellectual honesty and scientific rigor.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

your uk dieticians link is referencing the same now-expired AND position

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Among an otherwise lengthy list of other citations, and ignoring how I've established that their position has not actually changed. You truly are skilled at honing in on the most irrelevant shit, and giving things the most bad faith interpretations possible.

[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 23 hours ago

their position has not actually changed

yes, it has

[–] chetradley@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

IMO those people need to chill. I used to catch shit from my in laws for never feeding my kids meat, but they're both healthy, strong and they surpass all of their growth and development milestones. Their pediatrician is more than happy with us excluding meat from their diet.

Can you fuck a kid up on a vegetarian or vegan diet? Of course if you don't know what you're doing and you feed them nothing but raw fruit or something. I'd argue it's even easier to fuck them up on a standard American diet. Don't take your kids to McDonald's every other day and tell me I'm a shit parent for not feeding meat to mine. (Obviously this last point isn't directed specifically at you, but at the attitude in general).